double brood

[keith pierce]

Depending on how prolific your bees are, there is a risk that most of "your" honey will end up in "their" top brood box.

I agree...In America they are guaranteed about 6 months of summer in order to bring in a crop. If they miss one honey flow or are not strong enought at the time, there is always another flow following. Here I have heard a figure that, we only have about 16 days in total to gather in the honey crop. This year I would say even less. Each super hold about 30lbs and a national brood box full holds about 60lb. This year my hives averaged about 43lb per hive. So if i was running double broods i would of got nothing. It is economic sense for me to take away the surplus honeY and feed with cheaper syrup.

 

[oliver90owner]

most of "your" honey will end up in "their" top brood box.

Does it really matter?

Depending on when you take your crop might make a difference.

I look on it like this: if they are doing well, and will fill the brood box on their own, I can take honey from the brood box and not have to feed; if not, then leave it. All depends on what comes as the best thing to do at the right time. If the weather changes I can feed, otherwise I have enough honey and they have enough stores without getting any sugar syrup in my crop.

Clearly 14 x 12s will afford a slightly different approach than deep boxes, as a full 14 x 12 is more than adequate for the winter stores.

 

[Finman]

.last summer was real catastrophe.
You cannot nurse bees waiting every year that kind of summer.

And when you keep bees, first the hive builds up and it needs certain amount of boxes even if it has got honey at all.

Then some day good summer weeks starts and pastures give nectar.

 

[keith pierce]

most of "your" honey will end up in "their" top brood box.

Does it really matter?

Depending on when you take your crop might make a difference.

I look on it like this: if they are doing well, and will fill the brood box on their own, I can take honey from the brood box and not have to feed; if not, then leave it. All depends on what comes as the best thing to do at the right time. If the weather changes I can feed, otherwise I have enough honey and they have enough stores without getting any sugar syrup in my crop.

Clearly 14 x 12s will afford a slightly different approach than deep boxes, as a full 14 x 12 is more than adequate for the winter stores.

Once you start feeding into frames where there is a possability that you are going to remove some of them the following year and extract, then there is a very high probability that you are going to have your honey contaminated with syrup.
. it depends on what you want.

 

[Finman]

Once you start feeding into frames where there is a possability that you are going to remove some of them the following year and extract, then there is a very high probability that you are going to have your honey contaminated with syrup.
. it depends on what you want.

It is not rare that I have feeded full size hives at the end of June.
They just have consumed all food and are in danger to starve off in the middle of summer.

You give one week food and wait what happens to weather then. It is 5 kg sugar as syrup.
It is not cold which makes hives empty but continuous rain, week after week.

This is not normal beehive nursing. Those are exceptional tricks.

Hive must allways have 1-2 week food store in it.

"Once you start feeding into frames where there is a possability that you are going to remove some of them the following year"
I do not loose my night sleep for that. 9 years out 10 I try to get rid out of winter sugar before new yield begins. But still, you cannot take them all off.

.

But this has nothing to do with excluder, how many boxes you have under or over the excluder. It does not make summer better



.

 

[REDWOOD]

It is not cold which makes hives empty but continuous rain, week after week.
I agree with this being a Welshman, but for some strange reason this year was good-ish

 

[oliver90owner]

Once you start feeding into frames where there is a possability that you are going to remove some of them the following year and extract,

You are speaking for yourself, there? There has been no chance of that happening with my hives for the past six years or more and I intend to avoid that possibility for as long as possible. A full box is enough for the winter, or often only ten frames is adequate. Nucs might get some feed, but normally all colonies would only get fondant during the colder winter months, should they get light, and that will be consumed, not stored.

But I am not a commercial beek, so I do not need to take off every skerret of honey every year. I normally have enough stores frames to help out any slower colonies; I would arrange for any suspect frames to be used for bringing on nucs in the summer, etc, etc. Not a difficult situation for someone with just a few colonies.

 

[keith pierce]

It is not rare that I have feeded full size hives at the end of June.
They just have consumed all food and are in danger to starve off in the middle of summer.
You give one week food and wait what happens to weather then. It is 5 kg sugar as syrup.
It is not cold which makes hives empty but continuous rain, week after week.

This is not normal beehive nursing. Those are exceptional tricks.

Hive must allways have 1-2 week food store in it.

"Once you start feeding into frames where there is a possability that you are going to remove some of them the following year"
I do not loose my night sleep for that. 9 years out 10 I try to get rid out of winter sugar before new yield begins. But still, you cannot take them all off.

.

But this has nothing to do with excluder, how many boxes you have under or over the excluder. It does not make summer better



.

You must have the wrong type of bees, one that is not suited to your area and honey flow and is capable of brood rearing to the point of starvation.

26 years in beekeeping and i have never had to feed a full sized colony during the summer and i live in ireland which is known for having probably the worst summers in europe. I have never, never, never, removed a brood frame for extraction. I dont think it good practice to spin honey out of frames that have been used for brood rearing and also been on the hive while we were doing our treatment for varroa.

I was given a jar of honey this year by a person who fed their bees during the summer. I politely excepted and poured it down the kitchen sink as soon as i got home.

I personally would lose sleep, if i thought i was selling syrup/honey to my customers rather that pure honey. I have to eat it myself.

I think its called quality control.

 

[mbc]

.l

Then some day good summer weeks starts and pastures give nectar.

How many hours of daylight are there in a Finnish midsummers day ? Does it get dark at all in the North ?

 

[Ely]

You must have the wrong type of bees, one that is not suited to your area and honey flow and is capable of brood rearing to the point of starvation.

26 years in beekeeping and i have never had to feed a full sized colony during the summer and i live in ireland which is known for having probably the worst summers in europe. I have never, never, never, removed a brood frame for extraction. I dont think it good practice to spin honey out of frames that have been used for brood rearing and also been on the hive while we were doing our treatment for varroa.

I was given a jar of honey this year by a person who fed their bees during the summer. I politely excepted and poured it down the kitchen sink as soon as i got home.

I personally would lose sleep, if i thought i was selling syrup/honey to my customers rather that pure honey. I have to eat it myself.

I think its called quality control.

What are your views on bees that naturally move stored honey out of their brood nest and into added supers?

 

[keith pierce]

What are your views on bees that naturally move stored honey out of their brood nest and into added supers?

I the spring time i am constantly hefting the hive for weight. They only get fondant if they really, really need it, as i want lots of space for the queen to lay. My first inspection's in spring moves the brood nest to the front of the hive. Once the brood rearing really starts to kick in, i am constantly expanding the brood nest backwards by removing back frames of stores , uncapping them and putting them into the middle of the brood nest. This is done till they are on about 8 frames of brood using up just about all the stores that they were fed the previous autumn.. Some full frames are pulled out and given to other hives, or used in nuc Production and replaced with new frames and foundation. Super don’t go on my hives till they have about 8 frames of brood and then over a sheet of newspaper. I can't 100%guarentte that syrup won't get up into the super, but if by some chance it does then its right above the brood in the first super and this will be the first food the bees will use when they have a hungry couple of weeks.

 

[Finman]

You must have the wrong type of bees, one that is not suited to your area and honey flow and is capable of brood rearing to the point of starvation.
ol.

hahah hahah hahah hah hahah . You feed you hives all years around.
My hives use 20 kg sugar on average during 8 months winter rest. That is my type bees.

You mean that I am not able to select good type bees? Hehe heheh heheh
I buy my mother queens from professionals which have 500-1000 hives.

Advices from Wales? I tell you when I need them.

My hives must be ready to catch big yields . Big yields are 80-120 kg in 3 weeks.




Our willows start to bloom at the beginning of May. Our yeidl season is over 10.8.
You do not understand our short summer even if I explain.

.

 

[keith pierce]

hahah hahah hahah hah hahah . You feed you hives all years around.
My hives use 20 kg sugar on average during 8 months winter rest. That is my type bees.

You mean that I am not able to select good type bees? Hehe heheh heheh
I buy my mother queens from professionals which have 500-1000 hives.

Advices from Wales? I tell you when I need them.

My hives must be ready to catch big yields . Big yields are



Our willows start to bloom at the beginning of May. Our yeidl season is over 10.8.
You do not understand our short summer even if I explain.

.

Imported queens.... just what i said.
80-120 kg in 3 weeks.... its no wonder you have big yields when you are feeding during the summer and filling you boxes up with syrup

 

[oliver90owner]

no wonder you have big yields when you are feeding during the summer and filling you boxes up with syrup

The art of beekeeping is to fill the boxes with bees ready for the forage, without them starving. Bees are more likely to move up honey from a space-limited brood box than in a situation where she can lay in the warmest part of the hive - whether bottom box or above.

Finman will have to argue his spot as to whether he feeds excessively just prior to a flow or not. I would certainly not do that (didn't feed any this spring or 'summer', but didn't get so much honey either - a lot being returned to the bees, as there was some OSR in the boxes of the production stocks).

It is the duty of the beekeeper not to harvest/sell contaminated honey.

 

[Finman]

Imported queens.... just what i said.
80-120 kg in 3 weeks.... its no wonder you have big yields when you are feeding during the summer and filling you boxes up with syrup

You said imported but not me'¨'But to be honest, we never had natural mellifera bees. All has been imported and no on here keep any more even German Black Bee.


I just wrote that It is not rare that I must rescue my hives with giving syrup in June.

And suddenly all my 6 box hives are filled with sugar . Now it is revieled! They found a sugar beet field?

National Sugar beet is blooming The date must be 5.7., I suppose.

 

[Finman]

.
I wonder, how douple brood can make atmoshere so hot.

I do not know about it because I do not use excluder at all.
But my queens use 2 langtroth boxes to lay. I kill every queen which can lay only one box.

PASTURES do not give more honey even if you use two excluders.

 

[Finman]

.
I have Italian race. They are imported from central Finland where winter temp normally reaches -30C. Yes, 300 km away from me to north. To south I have Poland on that distance.

The fast build up is based on huge winter clusters. I accelerate them with protein patty and electrict heating.
At the beginning of August one Langstroth box is enough to every hive.

After 2 months build up many hives have 4 boxes full of bees and some has even 6 boxes. Small hives have only 2 boxes.

My aim is that at the end of May, when apple tres and dandelions and white willow blooms, brooding gets its maximum, because after 6 weeks hives are in the middle of main yield.



If the hive starts to lay with maximum speed after 15.6, the workers will not rippen to harvest main yield any more.
In these cases I join weak hives and false swarm, that extra laying is off and the mixture in that colony is ready to forage and handle huge nectar flows.

Weight rises 3-5 kg every day is a good flow. To get one capped box, you need 2 more boxes of empty combs where bees put nectar to rippen.
That is why use in hives 3 brood + 4-6 supers. That hive can store 60 kg capped honey and it can still work.

If the yard is at the distance of 1 km from rape field, the hive consumes 50% out of yield to flying and resting.

Like I have said before, in main yield month bees fill the lowest brood box with pollen. Then in August they rear winter bees with that pollen store.
Italian bees tend to eate their all pollen off from hives. Carniolan saves a good amount up to spring and gets early build up.

Nature stops blooming in 10.8 but hives rear after that winter bees and that is why they need the pollen store. One box pollen makes one box brood.


"you do not win if you do not even try"

I keep 20% extra hives to cover winter losses.
The most important is to find splended pastures every summer.
Normal difference between pasture outputs is 2-3 fold.
That is more important than number of hives.

If the rape pasture is at the distance of 2 km, I move hives away.
I do not want to waste my bees after whole years work.




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[richardbees]

After 2 months build up many hives have 4 boxes full of bees and some has even 6 boxes. Small hives have only 2 boxes.

My aim is that at the end of May, when apple tres and dandelions and white willow blooms, brooding gets its maximum, because after 6 weeks hives are in the middle of main yield.

Finman

that's the first time I've seen a description of your beekeeping calender - and illustrates why your techniques differ from those of an UK urban beekeeper

+4C tonight

Richard

 

[Finman]

-
-7C and snow 30Cm. Forecast promised -15C to monday.

Traffic camera on main road 10 miles from me

http://www2.liikennevirasto.fi/alk/kelikamerat/kamera-C0351901.html


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[Hivemaker.]

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Traffic camera on main road 10 miles from me
.

Why watch a picture/film of a road.