Double brood to single

[Glenviewbee]

I did a very late unite last year (Sept) because of various things and left the resulting single colony on double brood over the winter.
I am working on the basis that the queen and cluster would have moved up to the upper brood box given that it would be the warmest place (I have insulation above the cover board) so HMQ will start laying up there and supposedly stores would have been moved up as necessary. How late can I leave it before I remove the bottom brood box do you think?
Thanks

 

[Tremyfro]

I was advised to leave it until the spring. Even if there is some brood in the bottom brood box...you can put it above a q excluder until all have emerged. Of course, check the queen isn't in the box first..ha ha...we did this last year...there was some drone brood on the frames...when we removed the cover board....out whooshed a load of drones....freedom at last. Fairly spectacular. I am making a cover board with escape doors...for next time.

 

[Oscarmonster]

Up here I would say before end of march, depends on your local climate.

 

[REDWOOD]

As late as you want but before drones appear, In the spring when the bees are starting to warm up find the queen and put her in the top box with as much brood frames as possible, slip a QE between the boxes and as soon as all the brood has emerged from the bottom box remove it. If there are drones an entrance above the QE is advisable

 

[snelgrove]

I would transfer all brood to one box in early April ensuring there is enough stores shaking bees into one box. Or continue on a double brood reversing the boxes and when queen cells are found split into nuclei.

 

[Glenviewbee]

Thanks for the info

 

[itma]

I would transfer all brood to one box in early April ensuring there is enough stores shaking bees into one box. Or continue on a double brood reversing the boxes and when queen cells are found split into nuclei.

You are in Durham, OP is in Cornwall - I'm in Kent so my Spring is between the two of you!

I'd suggest that the next convenient warm day (it is nearly March), one should go through the colony and move all the brood into one box (keep the brood together!), and then fill out that box with stores (I'd suggest some on each side, fullest frames to the outside). Withdraw the other box, with the empty frames, the old comb and anything else that you can't fit into the 'keep' box.

Only do it on a good flying day (but don't wait for the calendar), and shake bees from the 'take away' frames back into the remaining single brood.

 

[snelgrove]

You are in Durham, OP is in Cornwall - I'm in Kent so my Spring is between the two of you!

I'd suggest that the next convenient warm day (it is nearly March), one should go through the colony and move all the brood into one box (keep the brood together!), and then fill out that box with stores (I'd suggest some on each side, fullest frames to the outside). Withdraw the other box, with the empty frames, the old comb and anything else that you can't fit into the 'keep' box.

Only do it on a good flying day (but don't wait for the calendar), and shake bees from the 'take away' frames back into the remaining single brood.

I used early April as a guide, opening up a colony now or within the next few weeks is unthinkable in this area

 

[theeggman]

BUT the OP is in Cornwall as ITMA says.

Here in Devon today the weather is carp but can/ will improve ahead of the rest of the UK, we hope, so timings are very regional.

 

[Swarm]

Regardless of location, I wouldn't be shuffling frames into one box at this time of year, it's too unpredictable.
What's the rush? Some people just seem to want to interfere for no good reason.

 

[Travelator]

I regularly take colonies into winter on double brood. At the first inspection in spring, the bottom box is usually completely empty and can simply be removed. If it's *not* empty at the first inspection, I'd suggest taking note of what state it's in and coming prepared to sort things out at the next inspection. (For instance, you might find that there are a couple of frames with brood in the bottom box and a couple full of stores in the top box that you can safely remove.)

 

[Finman]

Douple

 

[Finman]

I regularly take colonies into winter on double brood. At the first inspection in spring, the bottom box is usually completely empty and can simply be removed. If it's *not* empty at the first inspection, I'd suggest taking note of what state it's in and coming prepared to sort things out at the next inspection. (For instance, you might find that there are a couple of frames with brood in the bottom box and a couple full of stores in the top box that you can safely remove.)

But brood frames in lower box tells that the queen has good capacity to use the boath boxes. So do not take another box off. And hive needs lots of room to store pollen in spring.

But normally spring build up is quicker if you take empty douple box off.

 

[BKF Admin]

Early and late season I always ask myself:
"if I interfere and it goes wrong can they raise a new queen" ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Regardless of location, I wouldn't be shuffling frames into one box at this time of year, it's too unpredictable.
What's the rush? Some people just seem to want to interfere for no good reason.

Early and late season I always ask myself:
"if I interfere and it goes wrong can they raise a new queen" ?

 

[Firefly]

The OP asked "How late can I leave it before I remove the bottom brood box do you think?", not "How soon can I do it?", which seems like the right question

I'm in the same position and have been wondering the same thing

I'm hoping the weather will get warm enough in March to do a first inspection but I'm wondering if I should be prepared to sort it out there and then on the hoof if possible. I'm a bit concerned that Travelator's strategy ("taking note of what state it's in and coming prepared to sort things out at the next inspection") might let things run away with me.

Is there a danger of dithering too long. By mid-April last year I had hives full of queen cells!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Is there a danger of dithering too long. By mid-April last year I had hives full of queen cells!

Perhaps they needed another brood chamber adding to give them more room.

 

[Firefly]

Perhaps they needed another brood chamber adding to give them more room.

Yes - I realised I had left myself open to that one!

I'm really just making the point that things (can) move fast from 15 Mar to 15 April, so worrying about being sucked into an unintended double-brood for the whole season

I know that is not necessarily a bad thing (depending on bees, season....and bee-keeper) but at least I'd like to feel I'm choosing to do it rather than being forced into it

 

[itma]

The OP asked "How late can I leave it before I remove the bottom brood box do you think?", not "How soon can I do it?", which seems like the right question
...

How soon depends on the weather.
How late depends on your colony ... and the weather!

Since the OP lists as being in "West Cornwall", my expectation is that he'd be among the earliest in the country to be able to open up and see what (if anything) needed sorting out.

 

[Goran]

At my place usually if able we leave on 2 boxes. Upper box is cluster, below mainly empty. I as addition remove 2 side frames in box below - already prepared for spring expanding of broodnest. In spring when colony reach 6 frames of brood, I just lift down sealed brood, in upper box 2 foundations+empty. When bees "takeover" whole space up, then is usually time to rotate and place qe. Then again all sealed brood is now above qe, queen with open brood and empty frames, added foundations below. Some immediatelly place even third box, but I try to avoid it to don't get wild qcells in third box. I wait till next expanding, then all brood from 2nd box go into third, and mixed, mostly sealed from bottom box in the middle of 2nd box. And.. mainly await for black locust to come and hoping done it right to bees don't think on swarming. But that is theory and always have to adapt due to various reasons.. But at the end that is beekeeping.