Double Brood chamber, good Q upstairs, DLQ downstairs

[Flatters]

Can it possible that a hive on a double national can have two queen? If you look that the following photos you can see what the bees have done, or rather what I have let them do.

I had a double BC through the winter and did an AS at the end of April. With the weather being bad the queen did not mate and start laying until late May. When I did the AS I left this colony on Double BC with the top chamber with 11 frames and a dummy board and the bottom one with dummy board, seven frames then dummy board. I was following the advice the Scottish Beekeepers info on Double BCs so I thought I was doing it right.

My son did an inspection two weeks ago but just the top BC to make sure there was enough room and the queen was laying, which there was and she was.

He did not spot the wild comb being built in the front space of the hive in the bottom BC where it looks like we have a second queen laying only drone brood. The brood in the upper level is perfect. Flat and well set out.

At the start of this week the bees were hanging out of the hive which I thought odd although from other threads, not unusual.

To get things sorted out I would appreciate some guidance.

My thoughts are as follows:-
1. I get another BC and transfer the good frames from the bottom BC into it and I swap out the BC which has now only the wild comb in it.
2. I will sift through the remaining bees on the comb and find this DLQ and kill her.
3. I would cull all the larvae in that section as it is all drone brood.
4. I would rotate the BCs to the cold way so they are entering directly into frames rather than this void. I think I may have missed that point in reading the advice

 

[Flatters]

More photos

 

[Flatters]

I checked the hive out a short while ago and my inspection today does not seemed to have altered anything. The ground floor front flat colony are hanging around in the entrance whilst still allowing the first floor residents entry. Even the super that is on is getting filled up.

I thinks this is a most extraordinary situation.

 

[richardbees]

If I've read your post correctly ... I would take the hive apart ( and brutally discard the wild comb somewhere your garden robin can find it)..

Put the currently top bb together with viable Q on the floor, then a QE, then the super, then the currently bottom bb on top of that.

Can you see a problem with doing that?

richard

 

[Flatters]

Richard Bees. I would freeze the 2 bits of wild comb as my son is doing research on varroa and he may find it useful.

If the DLQ is still in the bottom BB after I move the wild comb out then am I not just doing is moving the problem upstairs?

Can a DLQ pass through a QE? She has not been fertilised and so may be slimmer.

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

What is on the other frames in the bottom BB, is that also drone brood?

Brian

 

[Flatters]

Some stores, but not much and a lot of empty drawn out comb. Upstairs it is a new queen and that is where the main stores and brood is.

The wild comb you can see I think was started by drawing out from the bottom of the frames above since when I tried to remove them they were very difficult to shife and had to be levered upwards. The bees have then connected it to the walls so it looks like two frames.

Facinating but a bit of a mess as well.

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

I know that if you put a shallow frame in a deep box, bees will draw out drone comb onto the bottom edge of the shallow frame.
So is this not just a larger version of that, due to the space you created when leaving the frames out of the bottom BB and now the queen is coming down from the top box and filling the wild drone comb with drone eggs.

Brian.

 

[Flatters]

Ah so it is only one queen and she has upstairs for the females and downstairs for the drones.

I will probably then cut out the will comb, shake the bees back into the box and ill the space with normal frames.

Thanks

 

[oliver90owner]

There is no mention of any Q/E. I would think they have simply built wild drone comb in the botom box and she has filled it with drone brood. Just the one perfectly good queen in residence.

Regards, RAB

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

I would say that is the correct thing to do and you will more than likely be removing some varoa mites from your hive at the same time.

Brian.

 

[Flatters]

Thanks for the advice. As often is the case the most likely solution is the right solution and not the complicated one I made up.

The hive has now been rectified.

Below is the photo of the comb. I have left it out for the moment to let the the bees clear up the little bit of stores in it. I will collect it later when it cools down outside and the bees stop flying. The brood in this is 100% drone so accidental vaorroa management although I am taking a lot of "energy" out of the hive that the bees put in. They are strong though and should recover quickly

 

[richardbees]

Flatters,

Great photo! You could probably sell those for a few bob down Brixton market - after all, they buy live African snails by the pound!

richard

 

[garethbryson]

There is no mention of any Q/E. I would think they have simply built wild drone comb in the botom box and she has filled it with drone brood. Just the one perfectly good queen in residence.

Regards, RAB

Thats exactly what i was going to say as i have seen this before. If you put a super frame in the brood box they will draw it down the same size at the brood frames and 9 times out of 10 it will be drone comb. some people do this intentionally so they can cut it away as a varroa control measure.

 

[Flatters]

My eldest son is doing A level biology and for his first year course work he did varroa control. For his second year he is looking into varroa in more detail. Today he and two college colleagues extracted all the brood in one of the above pieces of comb and examined them under a suitable microscope. They did not find one mite in any stage of development.

I will put a monitoring board on for a few days now and see what the colony drops.

 

[drstitson]

"There is no mention of any Q/E. I would think they have simply built wild drone comb in the bottom box and she has filled it with drone brood. Just the one perfectly good queen in residence."

exactly what i was thinking.

 

[drstitson]

"The brood in this is 100% drone so accidental vaorroa management although I am taking a lot of "energy" out of the hive that the bees put in. They are strong though and should recover quickly"

NO - yes the bees have wasted timed and energy to get to the stage of 2 "frames" of capped drone brood BUT once they emerge the drones will not contribute to the "energy" of the hive (like workers) and in fact will be a drain on resources til they die/are booted out. also you have a nice varroa trap here (presumably this is the first "cycle" of drone brood - if not you've had a nice varroa factory further hampering your hive.

 

[drstitson]

"I left this colony on Double BC with the top chamber with 11 frames and a dummy board and the bottom one with dummy board, seven frames then dummy board. "

FYI - the reason you got 2 "frames" of wild comb behind the downstairs dummy board was because of the arrangement described - bees won't see the space behind a dummy board as part of the nest normally (eg when using a single BB. However, because you "bridged" the dummy board with brood frames in the upper box the space below became fair game (presumably the two "frames" of wild comb where attached to bottom bars of the 2 frames above?).

"normally", one would dummy each box by same amount - that should stop this problem plus means you don't have upper frames above cold beeless space below - not good for various reasons.