double brood box

[Dookie]

Is there any benefit of having a double brood box on a hive? Loads of American websites seem to say thats the normal thing but i can't see any befits of it. Im just wonder if i should set one up this year to compare it against the single.

Any words of wisdom?

 

[Cussword]

There are lots of folks that use double brood, I think Hivemaker is one. But, there is also 14x12, and Commercial sizes to consider.

Another point is, if you don't like double brood it's easy to just go back to using Nationals, although there is a strong opinion that the National is not big enough.

I hope that helped.

 

[Heather]

I am not very tall or young and a double brood box is extremely heavy if you need to check for disease or queen cells. Also that would be a huge colony, so you may end up with a very high hive come harvest time!
KISS comes to mind.

 

[Poly Hive]

Paying attention to what happens in North America is not always wise and often can lead to real problems as their conditions are so very different.

I run double poly nationals and they work very well for me.

In the past I tried double Langstroth broods and that was an abject failure.

PH

 

[B+.]

Any words of wisdom?

I would say a lot depends on where you are and how prolific your bees are.

Some people seem to manage in a single National but, here in Bedfordshire, I use double poly Langstroths with my Carniolans.
I think a lot also depends on how established the colony is. Let me explain what I mean:
The year that a queen is mated, she has a lot of work to do establishing her own colony. The bees she has in the beginning were probably daughters of her mother (in the case of a supercedure) or some other queen (in the case of a nuc). By autumn, if she has done well enough, the colony will have enough stores and the queen will have laid enough eggs for the colony to overwinter with lots of young daughters of the queen.
Now, the following spring, she'll be in the prime of her life and raring to go. If she is constrained by a lack of space, the colony can begin swarming preparations even though their queen is still quite young. This is why I aim to get queens into a double brood chamber as soon as possible (although only if the colony grows to occupy that space). If they overwintered in a single brood chamber, I would expect to add another as they grow in the spring.
In subsequent years, I would expect them to need a double box. This gives plenty of space for brood and food stores so I don't have to provide them with emergency food.
This is just how I work though. As PH says, further north where he is this would be too much space. You'll have to learn from your own experience or, better yet, if you have a local mentor.

 

[drex]

My bees easily filled a national brood box. Played with brood and half and did not like it, due to different size frames. Been running double brood last few years. With frames being all the same I can move them between boxes, even change position of the boxes, which some say helps with swarm prevention and can encourage queen to lay a bigger brood ball. I find 14x12 frames unwieldy. I do not have to worry about space for winter stores. Queen cells Usually built between the boxes, so can be seen just by tipping top box a bit. Finding the queen can take a bit longer, as you can have two boxes to look through. Suits me though. You will find what works for you and your bees.
B+ beat me to it.

 

[B+.]

B+ beat me to it.

Sorry DrEx...I really must get out more!

 

[Anduril]

You may find this of interest. Hive configuration and over Wintering by Wally Shaw
https://view.publitas.com/welsh-beekeeper/autumn2016-low/page/2-3

 

[Swarm]

First thing to consider is do your bees need another brood box. There are people here who have performed a Demarree on a double brood, adding a third. My bees are not that prolific, I split my doubles when Demarreed and then revert back to double ready for Winter prep. Some will argue that double is not a good format to overwinter but mine generally fill the top box well with Ivy and refuse Winter feed.
I also have bees in single, standard Nats. It all depends on your bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

mine generally fill the top box well with Ivy and refuse Winter feed.

I have a feeling one of mine have done that.
I united two colonies fairly late. A 14x12 queen right colony on top of a BS Nat (to complicate things there is a nadired super). I never sorted the boxes because the brood frames were different sizes so the stack is still there. A quick look through the crown board reveals chockablock capped stores and bees far far down. i bet they're in the middle box....... Grrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Swarm]

LOL Your cluster is on the smaller frames, just like you wanted .... NOT.

 

[drex]

Sorry DrEx...I really must get out more!

Not at all. Always glad to read your well balanced, thoughtful comments.

 

[Beefriendly]

Not at all. Always glad to read your well balanced, thoughtful comments.

HM has a signature that says "let the bees tell you". Judge the queens laying rate...if they need double brood do it, if they don;t don't. I think the difficulty is when starting out you don't have the experience to correctly judge....come to think of it after many years I still get it wrong...but not as often I used to.

 

[nantmoel]

Last season we had a number of queens that were on 14x12 BB's and in my mind this was too small for them. I have spoken to a few fellow beekeepers and for a few months of the year they run a double 14x12 BB. So this year if those particular queens are as prolific as last season then I will be adding extra space.

 

[Little John]

Is there any benefit of having a double brood box on a hive? Any words of wisdom?

I don't know about 'wisdom' exactly, but - whilst appreciating that by 'Double Brood' you'll no doubt be referring to one standard brood box over another - there are other ways of achieving a similar volume.

One is to make a 22-frame Long Hive - I have several in the range 19-22, and they work reasonably well.

A second method would be to build a 16(ish)-frame 14x12 Long Hive - I also have several of these, and they work even better.

A third method would be to use Dadant hives, or the National equivalent.

All of the above have the same feature in common: they're essentially static hives which require no lifting of brood boxes, only their frames. Supers can be cleared either by lifting by the box, half-box (think Dartington), or a frame at a time.
LJ

 

[B+.]

HM has a signature that says "let the bees tell you".

That's a well known quotation from Brother Adam.
We all have our "heroes" and people that we admire for one reason or another.

 

[For want of a better word]

With B+ on using double brood in queen's second year.
More so with the NZI than the Cornish Natives, that seem to be happy in a single brood, occasionally brood and 1/2 if they move up to lay in the first super ( I generally only use QEs for breeding to keep the queen where I want her!!)

Myttin da

 

[Tremyfro]

I don't know about 'wisdom' exactly, but - whilst appreciating that by 'Double Brood' you'll no doubt be referring to one standard brood box over another - there are other ways of achieving a similar volume.

One is to make a 22-frame Long Hive - I have several in the range 19-22, and they work reasonably well.

A second method would be to build a 16(ish)-frame 14x12 Long Hive - I also have several of these, and they work even better.

A third method would be to use Dadant hives, or the National equivalent.

All of the above have the same feature in common: they're essentially static hives which require no lifting of brood boxes, only their frames. Supers can be cleared either by lifting by the box, half-box (think Dartington), or a frame at a time.
LJ

I have moved 3 colonies into long hives...beehoosies....they take 21 frames. Although you can use half supers on them...this year I am going to expand them sideways....see how we get on. That will mean direct access to the brood area without lifting supers off...so less disturbance...I hope. The brood nest can be as big as it wants to be ...just adding further frames as required. There is still the option of adding half supers at any time...should we get a good flow of nectar...in my dreams..lol This year...if I take nucs out of them for swarm control..I will be putting them directly into the spare beehoosies and Dartingtons...dummied down with insulation blocks.

 

[Poly Hive]

And around and around the wheel turns.

Long hive?

The Glen was "invented" in the 1950's by Dr John Anderson. Some ran it with double broods or brood and a half.

PH

 

[Tremyfro]

And around and around the wheel turns.

Long hive?

The Glen was "invented" in the 1950's by Dr John Anderson. Some ran it with double broods or brood and a half.

PH

Long hive...mine are Beehaus and Dartingtons...both are super insulated. They suit me as lifting is difficult when you are an old lady...even though my OH helps.
The bees don't seem any different in them than when they were in vertical hives....well that isn't strictly true....since they don't get as much disturbance during inspections...they are very quiet...I rarely need to use smoke. I still have vertical hives but much prefer to work with the long hives. I get enough honey for our family and to be able to be generous to friends. I am not restricted for space. I think they are a good compromise for a hobby beekeeper like myself.