Does anyone keep native black honey bees?

[mbc]

Personally I don't think the resurrecting of an extinct dinosaur strain is really worth the effort and the people who claim to have these bees really wouldn't like the results.
S

But going back to a wing from before any large scale imports to take measurements to compare with modern samples is a sensible approach.

 

[Hivemaker.]

They have these samples of AMM from 1784 collected by Linnaeus.

This is all in the little book 'The Dark European Honey Bee' Ruttner Milner Dews.

See link below.


http://www.linnean-online.org/cgi/s...try=&satisfyall=ALL&order=genus/species/-date


Also more in the thread below.............

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7850&highlight=linnean

 

[For want of a better word]

But going back to a wing from before any large scale imports to take measurements to compare with modern samples is a sensible approach.

There are other physiological differences between the various bee species, that may or may not make them fit for any particular habitat, proboscis length etc etc....

So far my experience with local black bees is that they forage in a wider range of environmental conditions than some other sub species.

If the bees I have are dinosaurs.. perhaps I should think about buying bigger hives!

 

[Tdf]

I regularly use a lab in Ireland for species DNA analysis, will ask if they undergo or have thought of DNA for bees as this would be the best for deciding if any were AMM. Problem I can immediately see is the lab would need a definitive sample or samples. Who would supply the samples.... BIBBA, seems unlikely?
S




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there are plenty of amms dna tested, think the irish ones are sent to denmark

 

[For want of a better word]

there are plenty of amms dna tested, think the irish ones are sent to denmark

From my reading (and experience of obtaining pure samples of DNA)...the whole subject of AMM providence (from DNA) seems to be flawed..... DNA testing has to be very carefully monitored... some labs do not even state if the DNA is mitochondrial or nuclear !

 

[keith pierce]

Keith do you know what strain and how pure your black bees are? You'll Have to keep me posted on the honey collection cuz that's was an amazing amount last year.

This year they averaged out about 43lb per hive. Each hive would have had about 2 frames of brood and two frames of stores taken from them for nuc building during the season. Out apairys was really bad, as i did not pay as much attention to detail. Did my swarm control and had a new queens laying and left them at it. When i came back they had all swarmed again and had lost my foraging force for the later nectar flow. Frustrating year.

 

[mbc]

Frustrating year.

x 100

 

[rdmw]

The darker bee in this photo is from one of my hives and the yellower one from a neighbours. not the best photo I know.


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[Finman]

The darker bee in this photo is from one of my hives and the yellower one from a neighbours.View attachment 14070 not the best photo I know.


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Typical mongrels

Seems to have Carniolan bands in abdomen.

In right hand the bee is old and hairs are worn away.

.

 

[rdmw]

Thanks Finman, good point about the old bee and lack of hairs. My bees are probably less black that's I thought they might be.
They are quiet, quite productive bees.
Best wishes


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[mbc]

Its difficult to say from that photo about the bee on the right,the one on the left is obviously yellow but the right bee looks native to me.
Collect a few samples in a matchbox and send it to one of the many native bee officianados up there and I'm sure you'll be given a clearer answer.
Good luck in the rugby later

 

[Eyeman]

I regularly use a lab in Ireland for species DNA analysis, will ask if they undergo or have thought of DNA for bees as this would be the best for deciding if any were AMM

It's phenotypic over genotypic for me.
Those observable characteristics are what I'm looking for.

 

[For want of a better word]

Things have moved on with the identification and demographic distribution of our Native Black Bee in the British isles with powerful and peer reviewed DNA analyses in the past five years.. look up B4 Project.

Yeghes da

 

[Poly Hive]

Please be aware that there is to be a meeting on the 1st of April, yes bad date choice, at Perth which is to be the inaugural meeting of a new society.

The Scottish Native Honey Bee Society launches then. Inaugural speaker to be Mr Abrahams from Colonsy.

A quick google will give you the website where the details can be found.

PH

 

[REDWOOD]

I looked at the B4 project website and those bees don't look like native black bees to me, rather like mongrels you see everywhere in the UK. I don't want to sound negative about the work they do though but native black bees should have black hairs and a narrowing between the thorax and abdomen. I think what you might have down their is a mixture of Brother Adam's and gods intended

 

[Cussword]

I bought a colony of "black" bees last year.

After they followed me over 3 fields I decided they were not the bees for me.

 

[For want of a better word]

I looked at the B4 project website and those bees don't look like native black bees to me, rather like mongrels you see everywhere in the UK. I don't want to sound negative about the work they do though but native black bees should have black hairs and a narrowing between the thorax and abdomen. I think what you might have down their is a mixture of Brother Adam's and gods intended

Probably stock photo!

B4 are more interested in the DNA and morphological detail of the Native Black ( or brown) bee than pretty photos.... but will speak to the B4 boffins and ask if some up to date images of the Cornish Bees could be substituted.

The beekeepers at Buckfast say that the bees hybridised at one time at that apiary could not have lasted more than a couple of years...... so somewhat doubtful if many would have made it across the Tamar!

Yeghes da

 

[Erichalfbee]

I bought a colony of "black" bees last year.

After they followed me over 3 fields I decided they were not the bees for me.

I was at a conference on Thursday where the remit was to discuss the commercial viability of amm as far as bee farming goes. They didn't get very far with that as the speakers were not adept enough to steer away from diverging at tangents all the time. Some had a better stab than others. Chainbridge honey farms are reputed to run 2000 hives of amm and produce large quantities of heather comb honey. The main advantage according to the owner is that because they are happy in one box and don't swarm much you can leave them largely alone as far as inspections go. Less work.

 

[For want of a better word]

I bought a colony of "black" bees last year.

After they followed me over 3 fields I decided they were not the bees for me.

One of those beekeeping myths... probably did not like the cut of your jib!

Myttin da

 

[Beefriendly]

Chainbridge honey farms are reputed to run 2000 hives of amm and produce large quantities of heather comb honey.

Perhaps with better bees they would get the same amount of honey from 1000 hives, making even less work.