Do you over winter your bees

[Bee View Farm]

My family and i were well known for over wintering our bees. We over wintered 300 hives years ago and had a good survival rate up until the late 1980s. After the mites come into the USA our survival rate went from 95% down to 5%

Last year i had 6 hives. Of the 6 i had 4 left by spring. That was my best survival rate in years. Buy the way, i keep my hives in my bee/honey house. This year i bought 3 packages. I looked at my bees yesterday. They have died. My hives from the year before are looking good.

I think the queens i got with the packages this year were poor. A queen not even a year old should over winter good.

 

[dpearce4]

What are the winters in Wisconsin like?

Here on the coast in southern england they tend to be mild and wet. Our colonies can suffer from dampness, if you dont prepare the site well. If that happens they can really struggle in the winter and build up really slowly in the spring as their brood box dries out.

 

[Bee View Farm]

What are the winters in Wisconsin like?

Here on the coast in southern england they tend to be mild and wet. Our colonies can suffer from dampness, if you dont prepare the site well. If that happens they can really struggle in the winter and build up really slowly in the spring as their brood box dries out.

Our winters are not as cold as years ago. I'm sure mine do not suffer from dampness.

 

[beeno]

My family and i were well known for over wintering our bees. We over wintered 300 hives years ago and had a good survival rate up until the late 1980s. After the mites come into the USA our survival rate went from 95% down to 5%

Last year i had 6 hives. Of the 6 i had 4 left by spring. That was my best survival rate in years. Buy the way, i keep my hives in my bee/honey house. This year i bought 3 packages. I looked at my bees yesterday. They have died. My hives from the year before are looking good.

I think the queens i got with the packages this year were poor. A queen not even a year old should over winter good.

Hi Bee View Farm,
Welcome to the forum. So sorry to hear of your plight and all obviously down to Varroa! I have a sneaky feeling that your climatic conditions and winters are a lot worse than ours, but you obviously know what you are doing. I am a newbie 2nd year beek, but had a lot of the problems you expect in the second year in my first year! In this country, UK, we do not tend to buy packages, but over-wintered nucs where the queen has a proven track record. So, its down to the purchase not the care. Bad luck! A more experienced beek, and we have a lot of commercial beeks on this forum, will be along in a minute to do some proper beekeeping chat. Happy New Year to you.

 

[beebopalula]

Your Winters are much colder than ours. We have a maritime climate, so it is usually a few degrees either side of freezing in winter - warmer and wetter on the West and dryer and colder in the East. Scotland is colder than England and Wales, but usually warmer than Wisconsin.
Everybody over-winters hives here and losses are typically few. However, 2012 Spring / Summer was the wettest for 100 yrs for most of the country, so lots of problems getting queens mated and drone - laying Q's / workers, and problems for some in the Spring of 2013.
Is it commonplace in Wisconsin to kill colonies before winter like in N. Canada?

 

[Bee View Farm]

Your Winters are much colder than ours. We have a maritime climate, so it is usually a few degrees either side of freezing in winter - warmer and wetter on the West and dryer and colder in the East. Scotland is colder than England and Wales, but usually warmer than Wisconsin.
Everybody over-winters hives here and losses are typically few. However, 2012 Spring / Summer was the wettest for 100 yrs for most of the country, so lots of problems getting queens mated and drone - laying Q's / workers, and problems for some in the Spring of 2013.
Is it commonplace in Wisconsin to kill colonies before winter like in N. Canada?

Most beekeepers here try to over winter them.

 

[REDWOOD]

how do you treat your bees for varroa, also lots of good work has been done on selecting queens for breeding that are good housekeepers cleaning them self's and other bees keeping varroa counts down

 

[beebopalula]

Ok, good. Not many people here buy packages of bees, we buy nucleus hives (nucs) - a mated queen with approx. 8-10,000 bees.
Do you use oxalic acid to treat colonies for Varroa during the winter? we are mostly using it about now when the colonies are brood-less. It is very effective (aplologies if you are well aware of all this).

 

[Finman]

.
Out temp in Wisconsin is now -5C ..-10C- It means real winters.

It must be good brood brake in colonies and varroa treatment is easy.
Polystyrene hives are good in saving winter food.

First you must have local weather adapted queens in hives.

.

 

[Bee View Farm]

Ok, good. Not many people here buy packages of bees, we buy nucleus hives (nucs) - a mated queen with approx. 8-10,000 bees.
Do you use oxalic acid to treat colonies for Varroa during the winter? we are mostly using it about now when the colonies are brood-less. It is very effective (aplologies if you are well aware of all this).

I do not treat my colonies for Varroa at all. Maybe treat them would help, but last year my hives were fine.

he hives i lost this year are 2012 packages. Unlike 4 years ago, these bees died in the hive like some did years ago before we had mite in the USA. This is why i feel it's poor queens. When we started having mite here, bees died outside of the hive.

 

[Skyhook]

I do not treat my colonies for Varroa at all. Maybe treat them would help, but last year my hives were fine.

he hives i lost this year are 2012 packages. Unlike 4 years ago, these bees died in the hive like some did years ago before we had mite in the USA. This is why i feel it's poor queens. When we started having mite here, bees died outside of the hive.

I think you've answered your own question. Before the mite, you overwintered no problem. Mites can take a terrible toll on the bees, both by acting directly as parasites, and by the viruses they transmit. Untreated colonies are likely to last around 3 years on average- some more, some less.

I suggest you restock next year, but treat your new packages with Oxalic acid on arrival, then with a thymol treatment when you take the crop off at the end of summer.

I see no reason why you shouldn't get back to 95% overwintering.

.

 

[Bee View Farm]

I think you've answered your own question. Before the mite, you overwintered no problem. Mites can take a terrible toll on the bees, both by acting directly as parasites, and by the viruses they transmit. Untreated colonies are likely to last around 3 years on average- some more, some less.

I suggest you restock next year, but treat your new packages with Oxalic acid on arrival, then with a thymol treatment when you take the crop off at the end of summer.

I see no reason why you shouldn't get back to 95% overwintering.

.

I'm have a hard time understanding why my hives that over wintered good last year are also doing fine this year.

 

[Beanwood]

I'm have a hard time understanding why my hives that over wintered good last year are also doing fine this year.

Lots of assumption here that it was varroa, but presumably it could be something else - critical mass of the bees perhaps? Were there more bees in the colonies that survived, so they managed to keep the temperature up. Were there still stores in the dead hives (That they could get to if they were clustered) or did they starve?

I'm not sure the quality of the queen should affect the whole colony survival should it? As I understand it, bees CAN survive the winter without a queen?

But then, I am new at this, and just working on theory...

Hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[QueenMaster]

My 2p. :

Don't use external wax, Use plastic drawn frames.

Restrain entry, with small door less mites and with plastic very few mites and damages, they don't eat plastic. put bee doors with little arches.

When you buy a package treat with flour or micro sugar to remove any varroa, and also any essential oil (absorbing paper). Let the package in a shaded area, feed and treat for 72H. then put the package in hive.

Feed bees until all frames are build.

Check brood patterns of your purchase and queen size.

If your winter is cold wrap your hive.

If your winter is damp or windy, make a shelter for your hives.
Cold wind can kill a strong hive in 12H and less.
Rain can also kill your hive, condensation is forming drops that fall on the grape, diseases are propagating faster.
so make a shelter that protect for rain with a concrete slab or sandy mix with gravel to prevent humidity to go up in the hive and rain to fall on the hive.

check weight hive end of summer, feed if they are starving or light
If you feed, Use pure glucose sirup, less prone to disease propagation.

And the most important : plant trees, seeds, flowers around your apiary that provide nectar and pollen.

 

[Bee View Farm]

Lots of assumption here that it was varroa, but presumably it could be something else - critical mass of the bees perhaps? Were there more bees in the colonies that survived, so they managed to keep the temperature up. Were there still stores in the dead hives (That they could get to if they were clustered) or did they starve?

I'm not sure the quality of the queen should affect the whole colony survival should it? As I understand it, bees CAN survive the winter without a queen?

But then, I am new at this, and just working on theory...

Hope you get to the bottom of it.

I have my hives inside it's around 30 to 35 degrees. I'm feeding sugar candy to then. I found dead bees right by the sugar candy. YES they need a queen. Queens will lay eggs in winter.

 

[REDWOOD]

I have my hives inside it's around 30 to 35 degrees. I'm feeding sugar candy to then. I found dead bees right by the sugar candy. YES they need a queen. Queens will lay eggs in winter.

Do your hive have enough pollen to sustain brood in the winter

 

[Beanwood]

. YES they need a queen. Queens will lay eggs in winter.

OK - I'm just trying to offer suggestions - and perhaps you need to help me understand here - but NO, I don't believe a colony would necessarily die without a queen over winter. Lifespan of bees in winter and summer vary dramatically, as I'm sure you know (36 days summer, 6 months winter according to Ted Hooper!). Whilst the spring build up would undoubtedly not happen without HM in residence, the colony shouldn't die through lack of one.

Logically, as we aren't yet even four months into winter surely there must be an alternative reason for it's failure ?

I know your family have been keeping bees for over 100 years, but how much direct experience have you had please - it might help others to assist if they know your existing level of expertise. What is your families view of the reason for failure?

 

[Bee View Farm]

OK - I'm just trying to offer suggestions - and perhaps you need to help me understand here - but NO, I don't believe a colony would necessarily die without a queen over winter. Lifespan of bees in winter and summer vary dramatically, as I'm sure you know (36 days summer, 6 months winter according to Ted Hooper!). Whilst the spring build up would undoubtedly not happen without HM in residence, the colony shouldn't die through lack of one.

Logically, as we aren't yet even four months into winter surely there must be an alternative reason for it's failure ?

I know your family have been keeping bees for over 100 years, but how much direct experience have you had please - it might help others to assist if they know your existing level of expertise. What is your families view of the reason for failure?

My direct experience with bees and honey has been life time. 51 years. My grandpa always told me and so have other beekeepers that bees need a queen even in winter. I know that in the past, we had hives die in winter that had all the feed needed for winter. The queens of the package bees from this year had a poor brood pattern. The hives had lots of bees, but the brood pattern was poor. I feel 75% of a brood frame should be full of brood.

 

[BeeJayBee]

My family and i were well known for over wintering our bees. We over wintered 300 hives years ago and had a good survival rate up until the late 1980s. After the mites come into the USA our survival rate went from 95% down to 5%

Last year i had 6 hives. Of the 6 i had 4 left by spring. That was my best survival rate in years. Buy the way, i keep my hives in my bee/honey house. This year i bought 3 packages. I looked at my bees yesterday. They have died. My hives from the year before are looking good.

Do you know if anybody else who bought their bees from the same supplier has lost colonies this early?

 

[Bee View Farm]

Do you know if anybody else who bought their bees from the same supplier has lost colonies this early?

Yes and the experience has been about the same.