DLW in Apidea... use or bin?

[For want of a better word]

Have a dozen Swine Bines ( Chinese Apidea ) that have gone drone laying worker... swallows probably had the virgin queens for breakfast.

Question is has anyone tried introducing unmated queens to apidea mating nucs that are full of bees... but are beginning to draw up drone cells and a laying worker is scattering eggs all over the place in typical laying worker pattern... three or four eggs per cell!
No sign of any queen!

Chons da

 

[Ian123]

I would bin even if full of bees, used again I doubt a decent mated queen will look good with half a frame of patchy drone comb in the mix.

 

[B+.]

I would bin even if full of bees, used again I doubt a decent mated queen will look good with half a frame of patchy drone comb in the mix.

It's best to start with a newly stocked mating nuc with fresh nurse bees. Just shake them all out in front of a queen-right colony so they beg their way in. The queens pheromones will suppress any drone-laying workers

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Have a dozen Swine Bines ( Chinese Apidea ) that have gone drone laying worker... swallows probably had the virgin queens for breakfast.

Question is has anyone tried introducing unmated queens to apidea mating nucs that are full of bees... but are beginning to draw up drone cells and a laying worker is scattering eggs all over the place in typical laying worker pattern... three or four eggs per cell!
No sign of any queen!

Chons da

Was just reading Walrus's book last night, when he spoke to Jolanta at Denrosa - she never runs in virgins after the first queen has gone, only QC's, she had a 100% failure trying it one year

 

[B+.]

Was just reading Walrus's book last night, when he spoke to Jolanta at Denrosa - she never runs in virgins after the first queen has gone, only QC's, she had a 100% failure trying it one year

It always seems to be the older foragers that attack newly introduced virgins. You might be able to get away with it if you moved the nuc to another spot on a sunny day when all the foragers were out working, but, I think it's much easier/safer to start again with mini-nucs. It's just a cupful of nurse bees!

 

[Ian123]

I always drop new cells in and not virgins, I’ve moved all mating nucs into 5 frame nucs now and no longer use the minis. In 5 frames I can let them lay control numbers and replace queens with new cells when needed. Once up and running they are self sustaining I can collect frames of brood/bees for various uses and add food frames that are excess from cell raisers being fed syrup.

 

[For want of a better word]

I usually run Keiler mating nucs, not had a problem like this with DLW.
Seems a shame to loose drawn frames.. only some have the drone in them.

I will take the apidea back to the apiary where the bees originally came from and shake them out as suggested... then load up with young precocious nurse bees as suggested.

24 hours locked in the dark and then introduce the virgins in an intro cage?
Thanks all for your input... much appreciated.
Funny how precious we can get over a few insects!!

Yeghes da

 

[Hebeegeebee]

You can keep the drawn comb and cut out the drone brood back to a cm of the frame. New bees. They then have something to start with.
Introducing virgins to mini-nucs has never been a particularly successful process for me.

If you had a retiring mature queen and put her in the mini-nuc feeder compartment in a cage for a couple of days before introduction, her strong pheromone might rescue the mini-nuc - it has worked for me.

 

[madasafish]

I make up my mini nucs with wet (sprayed) bees and add a newly emerged virgin at the same time.

100% success rate.. the bees are so confused they will accept her easily (assume)

 

[SDM]

I always drop new cells in and not virgins, I’ve moved all mating nucs into 5 frame nucs now and no longer use the minis. In 5 frames I can let them lay control numbers and replace queens with new cells when needed. Once up and running they are self sustaining I can collect frames of brood/bees for various uses and add food frames that are excess from cell raisers being fed syrup.

I always considered a 5 frame nuc with a cell to be such a waste of resources with our fickle weather( last year is have lost the first round of 5 frame nucs before a single queen laid and since you can mate them in the mini, then drop them direct into a nuc as soon as they are laying with as close to 100% success as anything I've seen in beekeeping. Also you do it with no break in laying or the queens development and maximise the number of mates queens you can get from your mating nucs, which is after all what mating nucs are for..
I can't see why anyone would risk wasting larger resources.

 

[For want of a better word]

I always considered a 5 frame nuc with a cell to be such a waste of resources with our fickle weather( last year is have lost the first round of 5 frame nucs before a single queen laid and since you can mate them in the mini, then drop them direct into a nuc as soon as they are laying with as close to 100% success as anything I've seen in beekeeping. Also you do it with no break in laying or the queens development and maximise the number of mates queens you can get from your mating nucs, which is after all what mating nucs are for..
I can't see why anyone would risk wasting larger resources.

Last season we had great success running in virgins into BS 3 frame double nucs( and dummied down to 3 frame Payns nucs) using splits from colonies that were on the verge of going swarmy.

I have found that queen cells are more successful in the mini nucs too.

Inspecting the colonies at the location of the DLW disaster... I notices a lot of swallows in the vicinity!!!

Chons da

 

[B+.]

I can't see why anyone would risk wasting larger resources.

If you have the resources, it's not a waste. It all depends on what your objectives are.
I am using Paynes Langstroth nucs as mating hives. Personally, I am fed up with fiddly little frames and much prefer working with full frames. If I can't get to an apiary, I don't need to worry about the queen running short of space (which I always did with Apidea, etc). I know she has plenty of space. In fact, I see it as a benefit.
One of the things this forum shows time after time is that people do things differently.
I particularly like full-frames nucs for II /island mated queens where I know they are ready to lay. I can put them in and let them get on with it. Then, when they're ready to promote into full hives, I take the entire colony together.

 

[SDM]

I particularly like full-frames nucs for II /island mated queens where I know they are ready to lay. I can put them in and let them get on with it. Then, when they're ready to promote into full hives, I take the entire colony together.

There is no point to putting something already mated in anything smaller than a nuc for sure.
No shortage of resources, but they're better used in production colonies. Even making 3 frame nucs I'd be losing 252 frames of bees to make up mating nucs.
That's a big investment on a queen cell to be open mated.
Doesn't hurt that mating apiary is home.