Disillusioned Beekeeper

[Shadapo]

Hi everyone

I grew up with bees around me as both my parents were active beekeepers for over 30 years. I took up beekeeping myself 5 years ago when I purchased 2 Nucs from a reputable and well established beekeeper. They both did very well the following summer. However one died during the winter with the other dying the winter after.

Two years ago I purchased 2 more Nucs from a different beekeeper who was recommended by my Beekeeping Club Sceretary. One died last winter and because today was such a beautiful day, with no bees seen flying from the hive at all this year so far, I opened the hive to find all the bees dead.

The bees were in the hive just like the 3 previous hives that died on me in recent years... and each hive died with plenty of stores, with the bees in 3 or 4 clusters around the centre of the hive. All hives were treated for Varroa as per my Beekeeping local club recommendations.

I'm half way through doing an intermediate beekeeping course which will cover queen rearing and splitting/nuc making...but am totally disillusioned now. After today I don't even feel like completing the course. Does anyone else have silimar experiences? Any words of wisdom?

Thanks
Don.

 

[Polyanwood]

It is sad when they die. I am always gutted when I lose any. In most years on average 1 in 5 colonies die over the winter. The way odds work means that it can happen to any of us.

If they had plenty of stores and you treated for varroa, then it must seem even more unfair. Sorry for your loss.

Tips about overwintering. The first is the most important: big colonies do better than small colonies, and don't give them too much room.

 

[Midland Beek]

What beekeeping books are you using?

 

[Finman]

.
How many brood frames you had in hives in late summer.

When they die on food, tracheal mite is one possibility as a killer.
.

 

[Tom Bick]

Sounds like you have list one hive each winter over the last 4 years. It's possible that all the colonies have not wanted to swarm or have you missed a few swarms?

 

[itma]

... All hives were treated for Varroa as per my Beekeeping local club recommendations.

Don, you don't say what treatment you actually gave, or what varroa loadings you were seeing before and after the treatments.

I'm not a believer in treating by the calendar and just assuming it has worked.


Heavy winter losses are not a necessary part of beekeeping.
My suggestions would be around looking to improve your winter preparations, and having another beek (or two) visit while you are making those preparations. A different set of eyes and opinions, might raise some points that you hadn't considered.
One top beek said in a lecture that "Winter Prep starts in Spring, if not before!" Getting the bees as healthy as possible, all the time, was his main message - and one key to that is keeping varroa under control all through the year.

 

[masterBK]

the bees in 3 or 4 clusters around the centre of the hive
-----------------------------------------------------
I agree with "itma" winter preparations seem to be an issue and getting in a second opinion at the time the bees are made ready for winter would maybe highlight any errors. Psychologists tell us that repeating a mistake is more likely than altering ones response to a situation. If the bees were not in one cluster they were probably queenless. Did you find a dead queen amongst the bodies? Did you reuse the hives (and combs) without sterilising them after the bees died in the first year. If so get the dead bodies of the recent colony deaths checked for Nosema.

 

[isc26]

If the bees were not from the same source but you kept them in the same location then is it the location that could be an issue. Is it too exposed, cold, frosty, windy, lacks sun etc...

 

[mbc]

Any words of wisdom?
Thanks
Don.

Give it another crack Don, its been a miserable few years for starting beekeeping and it can really be much easier in a decent run of seasons, honestly !
Try setting out any spare equipment you have as bait hives, then if you get a swarm move in you are guaranteed to start with bees which do well enough in your area to reach swarming strength.
Be thorough with whichever varroa treatment you choose and dont skimp on winter feed, too little too late is often why beginners fail.
2013 is going to be a blinder, so good luck !

 

[enrico]

Give it another crack Don, its been a miserable few years for starting beekeeping and it can really be much easier in a decent run of seasons, honestly !
Try setting out any spare equipment you have as bait hives, then if you get a swarm move in you are guaranteed to start with bees which do well enough in your area to reach swarming strength.
Be thorough with whichever varroa treatment you choose and dont skimp on winter feed, too little too late is often why beginners fail.
2013 is going to be a blinder, so good luck !

be brave......carry on......what have you got to lose? You've already put the money in and gained the knowledge....it might have been bad luck it might have been your fault....who knows but think how ecstatic you will be when they DO survive!

 

[beeno]

Hi Don,
So, sorry for your losses. It is truly heartbreaking to carry on losing your bees. I am a newbie and lost my one and only colony first winter as they swarmed at the beginning of of September and virgin did not get mated. However, I am now in my second season and have come to the conclusion Q+ colonies very difficult to build up winter stores because mine at least put it all into brood. Q- colonies lots of stores but doomed. It is difficult to stay on top as a beek. The only consolation is that your are certainly not on your own with losses this year and plenty more to come at that! Dust your self down and carry on!

 

[Shadapo]

Thanks for your messages and words of encouragement

Hi everyone and thank you for taking the time to reply to my mail. Your messages have certainly given me things to think about. I'll sterilise all the equipment I have again although I would have scrubbed all equipment in washing soda and rinced prior to using anyway. Is a washing soda solution sufficient for cleaning frames/supers etc? I used Bayvarol strips to treat for varoa last year.

I'll also leave out some equipment this summer and see if any swarms do come in. I'll also speak to some of the established beekeepers locally about purchasing a nuc or two this summer and involve them in preparing them for winter.

 

[itma]

... I used Bayvarol strips to treat for varoa last year.
...

In most of the UK (dunno about Ireland, but I suspect) most varroa have established a resistance to Bayvarol.
We have to get smarter!

Take a look at this booklet of varroa-related info http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21261

It is very important to monitor the varroa population, and ensure that it never gets above the critical level (variously quoted as about 1 or 2000 mites per colony). That range is less than a month of varroa population expansion, by the way.

Something I personally regard as important is to try and monitor *after* the treatment is over - to try to discover the extent of the residual problem.
Treating and just assuming that it has worked gives a false feeling of security.

 

[dn170221]

Don't give up!!!
If at first .....

 

[susbees]

However, I am now in my second season and have come to the conclusion Q+ colonies very difficult to build up winter stores because mine at least put it all into brood

Sounds likely they were an Italian strain. Try something that isn't

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mike a]

I'm not for one second making an assumption as to why you've lost your bees but like most of the others I would say keep at it, dont give up and I hope you buck the trend next Winter.


Autumn to me is one of the biggest grey areas for any bee keeper to gauge properly when each colony needs to be treated, fed enough stores to see them through and of course at the same time leave enough space for the queen to continue laying what will be the Winter bees which keep her warm.

Reading some books and listening to some very experienced bee keepers over the years they make it sound so easy when they reel off a list of what to do. Sadly there is IMHO no one answer that suits all as the weather is a key factor. On the south coast we have things a fair bit easier than those further North as the weather is on the whole milder, so when I talk to novice bee keepers I try to explain the importance of treating as soon as the last Super is removed and then start feeding according to the amount of stores in the brood chamber and not x amount of litres as that is what the book says or an expert tells you.

My tip is:
Use two brood chambers per colony over winter as you can over feed and don't need to worry about the queen not having enough space to continue laying both of which are critical.

 

[Teemore]

G'day Shadapo - sorry to hear of your losses - it is certainly demoralising but don't let it put an end to your beekeeping.
There have been plenty of helpful comments from the others who have replied. Without knowing how you managed the colony over the summer and autumn, getting it ready for Winter, it is very difficult to comment upon what caused the loss.
The site could be a potential problem.
Have you any beekeeping neighbours who you could quizz about this?

 

[Chris B]

All hives were treated for Varroa as per my Beekeeping local club recommendations.

You got varroa a bit later over there, and Bayvarol will lose it efficacy sooner or later, if it hasn't already. I can only speak from my own experience of Apistan, going from zero winter losses to 45% over the space of 2 seasons. (Apistan is equivalent to Bayvarol as they are both pyrethroids). A lot of us were caught out as the advice at the time was something like "Apistan is okay but maybe start thinking about other treatments as well", when in reality resistance arrived very quickly.
This is assuming varroa was your problem, which it may or may not have been. I'd put it top of your suspect list though. It will be revealing if high losses are also reported around your club.