Differencies in swarm foundation drawing

[Finman]

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Most swarms start to draw foundations quite soon and they have made combs half way next night.
So do artificial swarms.

Some hives take couple of days time and start gradually. Only question is, is it going to run away from the hive and that is why it dies not start.


But however. I do not encourage them. They do as they do. There is perhaps something hormonal what you cannot change. If food is finish, it is better feed them then. We have had very rainy weathers and many swarms have been near starving. And bad weathers inspire huge swarmings.

 

[stucat]

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Most swarms start to draw foundations quite soon and they have made combs half way next night.
So do artificial swarms.

Some hives take couple of days time and start gradually. Only question is, is it going to run away from the hive and that is why it dies not start.


But however. I do not encourage them. They do as they do. There is perhaps something hormonal what you cannot change. If food is finish, it is better feed them then. We have had very rainy weathers and many swarms have been near starving. And bad weathers inspire huge swarmings.

I've pulled swarms out of bushes where they've already drawn a frames worth of comb in the bush. I believe it's as simple as Prime swarms tend to get to work straight away and put full colonies to shame for activity from day one. Cast swarms sometimes seem to be waiting for the status of the queen to be confirmed before they get to it. Another big factor is how long they've been outside the parent hive, the stores they eat before swarming are what allows them to put all that work in making comb, but if they've spent a couple of nights out in the cold before finding a home their ability will be reduced.
Its possible they dont draw because they are still looking for a permanent home, so every swarm I take gets a brood frame from another colony, I've never yet had one abscond as they simply won't leave the brood. On one occasion, a swarm I thought I'd got in the box (with a brood frame) was clustered but much smaller looking back in the bush the next morning, as I'd missed the queen apparently. When I opened the baitbox expecting it to be empty I found 3 frames of bees plus extras had stayed with the brood splitting the swarm in half. They had stayed with the brood rather than follow their queen. Once she was dropped in too, they were going nowhere. Maybe one day it won't work, but for now I consider it as close as you ever get in Beekeeping to a cast iron guarantee that they'll stay hived.
As for feeding, wait 3 days as you want them to finish what they brought first, then feed them if they'll take it but not so much that they have no space for brood. I've seen so many different accounts that say feed 1:1 and just as many that say 2:1 since I could never decide who was right, I've always given 1.5:1 when there's boxes of comb to draw.

 

[Heather]

Collected a new swarm last month. They were in the box about 2 hours as I waited for lingerers to join. On hiving them, the swarm box interior was covered with hundreds of tiny starter comb pieces, enough to pick off.

 

[beeno]

Hi Finman,
I had one swarm like that this year. Definitely, should we stay or should we go attitude or more to the point abscond. They tried 5 times in seven days, but had to come back because of the QX. I did think she was mated, but did not dare to keep QX on any longer. To cut a long story short, they absconded 3 days later into a nuc on the other side of the garden which scout bees had seemed keen on and onto which they had previously swarmed. Does that count as my first bait hive success? They left behind approx. 1/3 of the original swarm with some rubbishy emergency cells. Lovely, black queen, now marked, in the swarm part and they are building fast. Their problem was that they had two queens in the hive. Maybe this is more common than we think.

 

[Finman]

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Two queens in swarm. Often they have even five. They kill each others very quickly. Next morning you see bodies in front of entrance.

 

[stucat]

What are you putting them into ?
I've never had a swarm move(voluntarily) into anything with an omf as they think it's an indefensible hole. If I hive a swarm into a poly nuc, I put some 3.6mm ply over the omf until first inspection(3 or 4 days). I think it gives them some confidence in the solidity of their new home. My bait hives takes 8 national brood frames and a 1 litre feeder, so I'm usually happy to leave them in there til I know them a little better and where they'll bee come autumn.

 

[masterBK]

Have had several swarms over the years hive themselves in empty hives with OMF's. There is a danger of being anthropomorphic regarding bee behaviour.

 

[YorkshireBees]

Have had several swarms over the years hive themselves in empty hives with OMF's. There is a danger of being anthropomorphic regarding bee behaviour.

Although I always collect swarms in a 6 frame PolyNuc I leave the omf mesh open unless the swarms is low down and then I tape a piece of cardboard underneath as I have had a few instances of half the swarm in the box and half under the mesh!

 

[stucat]

Have had several swarms over the years hive themselves in empty hives with OMF's. There is a danger of being anthropomorphic regarding bee behaviour.

For sure, but that would be the opposite as I was specifically looking at it from the bees point of view of defence and the one entrance rule. I'll wager(5p) not one swarm moved into an new hive with omf. A used empty hive would already have proof that bees can and did live there so that would help. It's got much more to do with filling as many of the characteristics that bees look for in a home as possible than trying to anthromorphise them.
Sure there are exceptions to all rules in Beekeeping, but following as many as your bees will let you, will only help.

 

[stucat]

Although I always collect swarms in a 6 frame PolyNuc I leave the omf mesh open unless the swarms is low down and then I tape a piece of cardboard underneath as I have had a few instances of half the swarm in the box and half under the mesh!

I tape the ply down for that reason too although I'd never thought it was swarm position that caused it(hadn't thought about it)
Doesn't the fact that they cluster through the mesh show they don't think it's solid ?