Dep frames for supers and brood box

[Smokeyred]

I am planning to go back into bees, having kept them for a few years during the mid nineties. I have the idea of having deep frames for both the brood box and supers. Can anyone give me their opinion as to what tpe of frame might suit both purposes best?

Inidentally, the intention was to use naional hives, but at this stage there is a fair bit of flexibility.

 

[Bee Bumble]

Langstroth or National.

 

[itma]

Are you aware of the Rose 'One Size Box' (OSB)?

And don't forget that you may be compromising your options for extraction ...



by the way!





// And as a born again beek, do download the latest "Managing Varroa" from beebase and gen up on the current thinking - or at least the current UK orthodoxy!

 

[Smokeyred]

How would you extract from these frames?

 

[victor meldrew]

National deeps are 14x12, rather than 14x8, apart from the extraction problems, lifting full 14x12 supers is no mean feat !
If same size boxes are a must then something smaller would be a better bet!
The rose as previously suggested is one , or perhaps the standard national even better as bees are usually supplied in national equipment.
VM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[itma]

National deeps are 14x12, rather than 14x8, apart from the extraction problems, lifting full 14x12 supers is no mean feat !
If same size boxes are a must then something smaller would be a better bet!
The rose as previously suggested is one , or perhaps the standard national even better as bees are usually supplied in national equipment.

"Deep National" tends to be misunderstood by at least someone.
As a 14x12 user, I know that DN4 frames are too small, and that I have an "extra-deep" or "jumbo" National.

Deep National (DN) frames fit a standard National brood box.
Which, if you could lift it, you could use as a crop super.


Bigger than usual frames likely need to be tangentially extracted, and if you do go bigger than DN size, then you may need something bigger than Thornes 'universal' series (which, even with the tangential screens or cage, won't take 14x12 properly).
Radial extraction is so much simpler.
I'm sure some 9-frame radials might take OSB frames radially (maybe even my Lega/Park), but its not something I've researched. Incidentally, with the optional tangential screens, it will take 14x12's.

 

[yeogi75]

you could always go national brood box and frames, wire them inch from top and bottom inch from left and right, wireless foundation first crop, cut out the middle and crush and strain, put back with one inch of built coomb around , put back in hive let bees fill in then next crop crush and strain or cut coomb use the same as osb , lifting just take frames as they are filled and put new in place

 

[Bates]

Our entire setup we only use brood boxes and if you get a decent extractor deep frames are no problem to extract. Its a bit heavier work but we are young lads so it all depends on convenience for yourself. We do it mainly to make everything uniform and easier to manage, also the frames cost the same and we use the same amount of bars on each box to make one half the size? May as well make the full depth.

Again all personal preference.

 

[itma]

Of course there is also the question of getting frames (boxes?) "fully capped" before extraction. Easier to get completion with smaller frames?

 

[Smokeyred]

Your philosophy appeals.....uniform and easy to manage. What frames do you use, and which extractor will do suggest do you suggest for these particular frames.

 

[Smokeyred]

Will look into it. Thanks

 

[Smokeyred]

Thanks.

 

[DulwichGnome]

I've found having all the same sized frames works well. I use the Warre and Rose method on poly nationals cut down to Rose size without using a qx most of the time. I had bought an extractor before going on to this system and national frames did not fit but Rose size did. I also have a colony on national super boxes only this year and it did very well, it got up to 7 boxes and over wintering in 3.

Mike.

 

[madasafish]

Being old and having a back which has a mind of its own, Langstroth jumbo brood box and shallow supers for me...

 

[Cazza]

Our entire setup we only use brood boxes and if you get a decent extractor deep frames are no problem to extract. Its a bit heavier work but we are young lads so it all depends on convenience for yourself. Again all personal preference.

This would not work for me as I am too feeble for the lifting part!
Cazza

 

[Chrisfnvs]

Our entire setup we only use brood boxes and if you get a decent extractor deep frames are no problem to extract. Its a bit heavier work but we are young lads so it all depends on convenience for yourself. We do it mainly to make everything uniform and easier to manage, also the frames cost the same and we use the same amount of bars on each box to make one half the size? May as well make the full depth.

Again all personal preference.

Totally agree Bates, we are switching over to all deeps for everything next season, especially in the out apiaries, carrying one size frames opens up a lot of options, and give you a good supply of new fresh comb. Chris

 

[Bates]

Yeah we find the beauty is we can drop nicely drawn comb in the brood nest and they don't seem to chew the holes like they would in the nest. Great advantage when creating nucs because can drop drawn down and get them drawing the next batch of wax above if we are short.

Smokeyred - when we first started we had just a 4 frame manual (eBay item number:151129727680) and that will take 4 deep frames (or 8 super frames). For small numbers would do you fine, we have a Thomas 20 framer now electric one, beautiful piece of kit. Born the same year as me! 1989! We use DN4 Hoffman spaced frames.

 

[Smokeyred]

Thanks for the. Have looked into the Rose frames. They look interesting.

 

[MuswellMetro]

"Deep National" tends to be misunderstood by at least someone.
As a 14x12 user, I know that DN4 frames are too small, and that I have an "extra-deep" or "jumbo" National.

.

EH Taylor used to call 14x12s ED5= Extra Deep hoffman, they also did ED4 (22mm top bars) and ED2 extra deep with 28mm tops and 28mm straight frames sides ( in 1960...yes i am old)

I was thinking of working a one size box system based on a Commerial brood box or standard national broods , National 14x8 broods or Commercial frames being the largest i can extract with tangential screens in my Radial Extractor ( mainly so i can reuse the honey comb for brood elsewhere)

 

[Dishmop]

I have been thinking about it since I started using national boxes.
Easy to put any frame anywhere then and not find that you haveny got enough of the type you have just taken out..

If lifting is a problem the boxes could always be dummied down inside to say 8 frames..

or smaller boxes side by side.