Dealing with an apairy of too-defensive colonies

[BeeKeyPlayer]

A number of my colonies and those I look after have become too defensive and I have to do something. My plan is:

• buy a queen and keep her in a nuc (I've ordered one from BS Honey Bees.)
• graft her day 1 larvae and use mini nucs for mating (I already do this and it works for me)
• when I have mated and laying queens, remove current queens and replace with these new queens, initially in a cage
• remove the cap exposing the fondant plug when the bees become accepting

Alternatively, I could cage current queens and after one week, remove them and insert a queen cell

I realise the problem is only half solved by replacing queens. There's only so much one can do by culling drones from defensive colonies. I wonder about trying to fit in a second round of queen replacement in the summer to ensure a higher proportion of the drones are from 'improved' colonies?

Any comments on the above or on how to make an apiary less defensive greatly appreciated.

 

[drex]

By a tactic of just selecting and culling I ended up with the bees I like, just after a few years. The change in the earlydays was actuallyquite dramatic. I do get occasional reversion but they just get the chop. I accept I have no control over other peoples Drones, but can influence my own

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

By a tactic of just selecting and culling I ended up with the bees I like, just after a few years. The change in the earlydays was actuallyquite dramatic. I do get occasional reversion but they just get the chop. I accept I have no control over other peoples Drones, but can influence my own

This was my plan, and I've hardly ever bought queens before. But this can't wait a few years. I need to do something now.

 

[blackcloud]

I've had a box of psychos and combined them with a good sized collected swarm as an interim measure-did the trick for a couple of seasons.
If they are unmanageable then you have little to lose.

 

[Sutty]

I've had a box of psychos and combined them with a good sized collected swarm as an interim measure-did the trick for a couple of seasons.
If they are unmanageable then you have little to lose.

Did you give the psycho queen the chop 1st or just hope for the best?

 

[steve1958]

How long have these bees been like this?

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Getting worse over the last two years. A few are now unacceptable.

 

[drex]

Hope you have learned not to leave it so long. Consistent unacceptable behaviour over the course of a month and she gets the chop in my book.

 

[blackcloud]

I did manage to find her and get rid .They had been chasing swmbo so any new arrivals would have been better

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Consistent unacceptable behaviour over the course of a month and she gets the chop in my book.

Yes, but the chop doesn't achieve anything unless you can replace her with a queen with different genetics.

Going back to the top, if you have any comments on my plans, I'd be pleased to hear them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

• buy a queen and keep her in a nuc (I've ordered one from BS Honey Bees.)
• graft her day 1 larvae and use mini nucs for mating (I already do this and it works for me)
• when I have mated and laying queens, remove current queens and replace with these new queens, initially in a cage
• remove the cap exposing the fondant plug when the bees become accepting

I don't breed my own queens so take this with a pinch of salt but this seems a good way
Have you ordered a breeder queen? It seems that would give you the most consistent results

 

[Mabee]

I’ve had this ongoing in my apiaries since early last year. A lovely queen turned horrible early last year then swarmed, her daughter was equally horrible. Both hives were requeened late last year and I thought by Spring they’d be good. Both had sneakily superseded the new queens and were still horrible. One was a drone layer so I happily culled her and united with a nice hive, change was fast and they are fine now. The other I caged the queen but they still made supersedure cells all week, I removed them and gave them one of my queens i’d removed as swarm control using a newspaper unite. She’s still there but they are still making supersedure cells, i keep removing them and will keep doing so till they hopefully just get on with her. They are still not great temperament wise but certainly improving.
Anyway, i’d not wait, requeen and cull all drone brood, or unite with a nice colony would be my advice.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I don't breed my own queens so take this with a pinch of salt but this seems a good way
Have you ordered a breeder queen? It seems that would give you the most consistent results

I'd like to order a breeder - but there's the issue of cost. Maybe some time in the future.

Edit: just read the thread Feisty F2 Buckfast Bees

Maybe an F1 bee for breeding won't solve anything!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maybe an F1 bee for breeding won't solve anything!

Which is why I suggested a breeder queen. I must say that my Buckfast from BS have always been good for the next generation (F2) but you’re still taking a chance.
How many do you need to replace? Buying that many F1s might be cheaper but a breeder will give you your own F1s

 

[Kali]

A number of my colonies and those I look after have become too defensive and I have to do something. My plan is:

• buy a queen and keep her in a nuc (I've ordered one from BS Honey Bees.)
• graft her day 1 larvae and use mini nucs for mating (I already do this and it works for me)
• when I have mated and laying queens, remove current queens and replace with these new queens, initially in a cage
• remove the cap exposing the fondant plug when the bees become accepting

Alternatively, I could cage current queens and after one week, remove them and insert a queen cell

I realise the problem is only half solved by replacing queens. There's only so much one can do by culling drones from defensive colonies. I wonder about trying to fit in a second round of queen replacement in the summer to ensure a higher proportion of the drones are from 'improved' colonies?

Any comments on the above or on how to make an apiary less defensive greatly appreciated.

Personally I'd kill miss queen and swap a few frame of brood and eggs from a colony that is chilled out

 

[Newbeeneil]

Today I had to deal with a hive that has gone maverick! It's queen less and I had to get in to tear down all the remaining queen cells. They were all over my wrists ankles and vail so in the end I retreated, sprayed my suit with Bee Quick and returned to the fray. The bees were still wanting to attack me but kept at a distance from all the areas I'd sprayed.
Now, how do I requeen? I have a spare mated queen in a cage waiting for a hive to reign over but what is the best way to introduce her? I was thinking tomorrow morning (12 hrs after becoming hopelessly queenless) I would pop the cage in and see what they thought of her?
Suggestions please?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Push-in might be safest but honestly I'd have introduced her via a nuc she had been laying in.....
I once requeened a horrid colony with a push in cage. They killed her and made emergency QCs on the eggs she had laid under the cage!

 

[Sutty]

After experience a year or two ago, unless you have very few colonies, they would be getting the soapy water treatment.
Caveat is if they were very good queenright, but still unsure.

 

[drex]

I now rear my own queens. Has brought a new dimension to beekeeping. Need not be complicated. Methods can range from opportunistic harvesting of qc's to grafting. I am never short of spare queens, so culling the unacceptable is not a problem. I recommend everyone has a go. I have found grafting good fun, even if it did take a few rounds to get the hang of it

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

they would be getting the soapy water treatment.

After a miserable experience all season last year trying to save a couple of Chronic bee colonies, I decided to nip it in the bud as soon as it appeared this year. My reading on how to euthanise a colony brought this up.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9009750/