Dead Hives

[Benodale]

I have lost both of my hives this winter. This is the first time I have lost any colony over winter so to loose both of my hives was a real shock. They seemed in good health going into the winter, they had plenty of stores and I treated them both with Oxalic Acid in January. One hive was looking a little light on stores so I gave both hives some fondant. I went back to check the fondant in February and found both hives to be dead. Both hives still had plenty of stores well distributed throughout. One hive was almost frozen in time with bees on the comb and the queen dead mid-lay. The other hive had produced drones so perhaps I lost a late swarm which weakened it. Both hives had quite a few dead bees on the mesh floor.

I'd really appreciate any advice on what might have happened and what I could have done differently.

 

[Itchy]

What type of hive?

 

[Benodale]

Both were Nationals

 

[beeno]

Sorry to hear you losts your colonies. Did you treat for Varroa in the autumn?

 

[BeeJayBee]

Do you have any pictures?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, pictures would be useful
Did you treat for varroa in the autumn and did you check the drops.

 

[Fatbee]

My thoughts as well Ericha. The OP also mentions drones - could have had a poorly mated queen and the colony dwindled.

 

[Karsal]

Hi

For what it's worth and I'll be shot down in flames but here goes.

I'm in my third year as a beekeeper and I have looked at it from a different perspective. I decided my hives would be poly's from the outset after much research and seeing a friends hive all dead from what I thought was cold and damp conditions. (Wooden National) Thin cold walls.
I had a hive with hundreds dead outside last year on OMF and thought would I leave my front door open all winter to let the air circulate. No I wouldn't so I closed the OMF and had no more dead bees. I've done the same again this winter and had no dead bees.
I also vaped them with oxalic acid as the other method of trickling cool oxalic acid in winter seems another way of chilling the bees and not many people like a cold shower in winter.
These are my observations and they have worked for me and my colonies.

 

[Nige.Coll]

I had something similar when the land level was increased near my hive causing a frost pocket.

 

[Binge]

@Benodale: Are you saying that the hive is full of dead bees, meaning you've had a catastrophic loss?
Or has it dwindled to a small patch unable to sustain the colony?

 

[dpearce4]

Hi

For what it's worth and I'll be shot down in flames but here goes.

I'm in my third year as a beekeeper and I have looked at it from a different perspective. I decided my hives would be poly's from the outset after much research and seeing a friends hive all dead from what I thought was cold and damp conditions. (Wooden National) Thin cold walls.
I had a hive with hundreds dead outside last year on OMF and thought would I leave my front door open all winter to let the air circulate. No I wouldn't so I closed the OMF and had no more dead bees. I've done the same again this winter and had no dead bees.
I also vaped them with oxalic acid as the other method of trickling cool oxalic acid in winter seems another way of chilling the bees and not many people like a cold shower in winter.
These are my observations and they have worked for me and my colonies.

I don't like cold showers in the summer either lol

 

[midnight sun]

I have lost both of my hives this winter. This is the first time I have lost any colony over winter so to loose both of my hives was a real shock. They seemed in good health going into the winter, they had plenty of stores and I treated them both with Oxalic Acid in January. One hive was looking a little light on stores so I gave both hives some fondant. I went back to check the fondant in February and found both hives to be dead. Both hives still had plenty of stores well distributed throughout. One hive was almost frozen in time with bees on the comb and the queen dead mid-lay. The other hive had produced drones so perhaps I lost a late swarm which weakened it. Both hives had quite a few dead bees on the mesh floor.

I'd really appreciate any advice on what might have happened and what I could have done differently.

Sorry to hear of your losses. Have a read of this shortcut I've 'pinched' from another poster. It may shed some light.
Plus, to treat for Varroa in January is, in my opinion, far too late. The winter bees are being produce in the Autumn (when the Varroa count is usually the highest) and that's when I treat mine. Leaving it till january means the Varroa have had ample time to infect your winter bees with all sorts of virus' and may weaken them preventing them to survive the winter's hashness.
Not saying this is your problem as such....but worth thinking about. Could be isolation starvation thrown in as well plus colony too small to heat the large hive box with the number of bees lost in the swarm you mentioned! Pictues can sometimes help.
regards Dave

 

[Fatbee]

I agree - winter OA should be about mopping up those that survived the summer/autumn treatment

 

[Jimy Dee]

Benodale - as some one who had bees years ago during a time when varroa mites were unknown to backyard beekeepers, at that time nosema was responsible for alot of winter losses, and I think it is fair to say that it has not gone away! There is such an obsession with varroa these days (and correctly so) that I think other stresses on bees are overlooked or forgotten about. You should consider getting your bees tested (if that service is available in the UK) and see what your bees may or may not have. It will assist you in better bee management for the coming years.

I fed my bees at the start of last winter with a natural oils mix (fat bee man recipe) added to the sugar syrup with the sole aim at combating nosema, and my bees have all survived to include 2 small and weak hives.

Karsal - I think you make good points and I am also moving away from totally open mesh floors over winter also. For winter management I think limited air circulation from underneath, sealed crown board and plenty insulation is the way to go.

 

[Karsal]

Thanks Jimmy Dee.

I recently spoke to my mentor who helped me start up my beekeeping. He did an experiment last season having spoken to me about me closing up the floors for winter.

His findings are the same as mine and he has closed up all his floors this winter and had no losses.
I'm assisting a newbie who lives locally to me and he has closed his floor on his hive recently and noticed a significant change in his colony.

 

[oliver90owner]

I've not closed OMFs in winter for over ten years (bar closing a few to a minimum at excessively cold periods) and suffered no great losses in that time. But I chose 14 x 12 as my format - so deeper winter boxes. Top insulation is important - very important IMO.

Nosema is always a problem and now, with the ceranae version, it is not so obvious. An effective thymol autumn treatment is likely a good move to reduce nosema losses, as well as having that much needed brood of winter bees devoid of varroa transmitted viruses.

Seems like a single loss of a good colony has been unfortunate to coincide with a late supercedure resultin in a dud queen. It happens. Hope the OP can easily get going again.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've not closed OMFs in winter for over ten years (bar closing a few to a minimum at excessively cold periods) and suffered no great losses in that time.

:iagrere:

I think basing all your theories on one incident and then attributing the solution to be closing the OMF is proving nothing one way or another. I had one colony this year which has been consistent in depositing a lot of dead bees outside the entrance - possible reasons are many fold - bees of a kind that can't be bothered wasting energy taking the dead any further, a big strong colony therefore more bees to die off during the winter, brooding later thus more bees wearing out sooner. They're still there though, still one of the strongest colonies and still plenty of signs of loads of young bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Nosema is always a problem and now, with the ceranae version, it is not so obvious. An effective thymol autumn treatment is likely a good move to reduce nosema losses

RAB, do you think we might see more N ceranae with the increase in people vaporising oxalic instead of using thymol in the autumn?

 

[Hivemaker.]

RAB, do you think we might see more N ceranae with the increase in people vaporising oxalic instead of using thymol in the autumn?

Oxalic in syrup.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26412538

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks for that, HM. Very interesting. I wonder, then, whether the effect may be extrapolated to vapour? Hmmmm