Dead bees

[Loubylou]

I have one hive, a collected swarm in June this year. They have been very strong all summer with the queen laying well until early September. I have treated them for varroa and have been giving them syrup, which they haven't taken any of and was reassured by a fellow beekeeper that they are probably out foraging ivy. But now I have just gone to my hive and seen 100's of dead ones at the back of the hive on the ground mainly, underneath and also dead and dying on the varroa floor. Are they starving, ill or being attacked by wasps maybe?

 

[itma]

Welcome.
Unfortunate circumstances.
Bees do die off somewhat in autumn, but this sounds a bit more than that.

First thing. Starvation?
Are there any 'heavy' stores frames in the hive?

Diseases.
Did your varroa treatment (which one?) yield dramatic results?
Has the colony been checked over by a more experienced beek? (Or the SBI?)
Good hands and eyes, in place, would likely give you a swift answer.
You should ask someone round.

Poisoning.
Has anybody been spraying anything 'nearby' to your knowledge?
No harm in gathering up a large sample (200?) of dead bees and sealing them in a poly bag, sealed inside another poly bag, and freezing to preserve until you have a better idea of what direction this is heading in.


/ and do you have the hive entrance reduced?

 

[Oscarmonster]

With itma.

Would look into store levels asap as a 1st step.

 

[BeeNice]

What type of feeder and you using, and what's the feed should be 2parts sugar to 1part water this time of year. If you are using a rapid feeder have you tried dribbling some syrup into the centre hole to let the bees know that the syrup is there, the bees will follow the syrup up. If your bees became a full hive 30 to 60,000 then you will get a lot of dead bees and the hive is reducing down, the 'summer' bees are dying off and the 'winter' bees have to last some 5-6 months. The hive will reduce down to 5-10,000. Have a look at the front of the hive, are the bees coming and going at a good rate on a nice warm day? Is pollen still going in? Heft the hive, judge the weight of a heavy hive and a light one, have a look at someone elses hives and heft that to get an idea of the weight. By looking at the front of the hive you will see if you have wasps, not such a problem this year. I'm sure other will come on and give more advice.
Steven

 

[Luminos]

Can you post a photo, Loubylou - lots of sharp-eyed folks on the forum.
Welcome, BTW

 

[Loubylou]

Still dead and dying bees!

Thank you all for your comments.

This is the state of play:

1. Stores ok although I am not experienced at judging I would say 4 outer frames have capped stores and they dwindle off to the middle
2. I treated them with Apiguard twice, I have just removed the last tray. There didn't seem to be a lot of varroa mites.
3. I have been using a rapid feeder and have dribbled syrup (a thick mixture) onto frames. They are still not taking any of this.
4. They are situated on the edge of blackcurrant fields, the plants were sprayed last week. I have checked with the farmer before and he did assure me that it was a low down very contained spray method and was harmless to bees. I am finding out the name of what they use tomorrow.
5. Today when I checked again they are very active, buzzing in and out of hive entrance, fast, noisy and angry (they have always been very placid) there are still l00's dying off around the hive. They seem to drop from the hive entrance and then just slowly walk off, curl up and die around the front, back and underneath the hive

I have (I hope) attached some photos of the varroa floor and hive for you to see. Thank you all again

View attachment 7405

View attachment 7406

View attachment 7407

View attachment 7408

 

[itma]

They are situated on the edge of blackcurrant fields, the plants were sprayed last week.

My suspicion is that you have the answer there.

For the bees benefit, it wouldn't do them (further) harm for you to shift them (at least) 3 miles away, asap, so they don't take in any more of the stuff.
Is there an association apiary that you could use?


PS - do collect at least a 200 sample of dead bees. Evidence.

 

[Chris B]

4. They are situated on the edge of blackcurrant fields, the plants were sprayed last week. I have checked with the farmer before and he did assure me that it was a low down very contained spray method and was harmless to bees. I am finding out the name of what they use tomorrow.

He probably does genuinely believe it's harmless. Not his fault but those who endorse these things. It's much more significant when spraying takes place and whether bees are in it at the time. Is it in flower?
It does sound a bit like spray damage. Another possibility is bees simply chilling after returning from the ivy. (Not chilling).

 

[beekim]

what a shame. hope you can bring whats left through the winter.good luck

 

[drstitson]

"Is it in flower? "

Nope.

 

[drstitson]

entirely possible to get bees caught out by sunny spells in bad weather - bees just make it back as weather turns, crawl under hive and die (or at least become torpid).

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If you need to send the bees off for examination, then 200 - 300 bees is required. It's suggested that you have a second load as an insurance against loss of the first.
If you are a member of an association, you may like to ask them to come and see. They will have a spray laison officer who may be worth contacting.

 

[itma]

I have not "been there" before so I don't know the protocols.

What does Loubylou do now?

Presumably contact the farmer and invite him round to confirm the damage.

I think the NBU do analysis to confirm poisoning.
But how does this happen?
Is the next stage to involve the Regional Bee Inspector? (The SBI will be off until April.)
Maybe the RBI would be a good source of advice? (presumably having come across this more than a few times)


I'd expect that getting the bees away from the sprayed field would be sensible, but what else can be done? Should uncapped stores (I'm thinking recent) be removed? How about pollen?
Or does it make sense to just feed like mad and hope to dilute whatever poison?

Presumably, there's a potential compensation claim to be made.
How does that happen?
Does the BBKA legal fees insurance come into play - or is there some other route?


Or is it just Kismet? If they survive, then fine. If not, shrug, decontaminate the hive and make plans for next year?
Surely there's more to it than that?


/ Cross-post with HeeBeeGeeBee noted. Must remember to preview when posting after an interruption!

 

[drstitson]

I have a hive holidaying at friend's orchard.

site not listed on annual hive return/survey - in different province.

in summer local council sent trucks down local roads spraying to deal with Tiger mosquitos. Hive 10 ft from road.

few 100 dead bees. colony seems ok and got a bit of a harvest.

put it down to experience.

any spraying now is not during blossom period so fair game provided agent is legal.

 

[BeeNice]

By the look of your crown broad it looks very thick, does it have a 9mm or so gap above the frames, more, and the bees won't follow the syrup up. The other thing you can try is to put the feeder on the frames themselves. I sometimes get bees between the mesh varroa floor and the varroa board, if the gap is large enough and die there. The bees on the varroa floor maybe robbing bees from another hive which can't get in the front. These are just some more idea's that you can try and think about.
good luck
Steven

 

[PBee]

entirely possible to get bees caught out by sunny spells in bad weather - bees just make it back as weather turns, crawl under hive and die (or at least become torpid).

A bit of a concidence that it occured around the time of adjacent spraying and the hive would probably be need to be exposed or in deep shade to have large losses around the hive due to weather.

 

[drstitson]

as per above- please explain hive format - looks like a BB + odd CB + BB on top (with deep roof).

 

[ellypatt]

Ugh, sorry How very upsetting and disheartening. I think there's a lot of good advice in the above posts. Hope you can find some answers.

(ps you're not Louby McN by any chance are you?)

 

[Loubylou]

I have gathered some of the dead bees to send off for analysis. Does anyone know where I should send them please?

 

[Loubylou]

Does anyone know where I send the dead bees to for analysis please?