Day 8 on my third grafts of the season am I pushing it?

[Curly green finger's]

As the title says, what are your thoughts? considering this is my first season.
Lots of drones still emerging in my neck of the woods,and I wouldn't mind continuing untill winter..
I don't want it to end.

 

[mbc]

As the title says, what are your thoughts? considering this is my first season.
Lots of drones still emerging in my neck of the woods,and I wouldn't mind continuing untill winter..
I don't want it to end.

I've prepped a cell raiser to graft into later today, ninth graft of the season! I won't do many more regular grafts now but will probably raise another batch in August to mate in September to give the mini plus nucs a queen to overwinter with once I've harvested this round of queens I'll be starting later.
Sometimes the bees will naturally supercede as late as October around here but I wouldn't want to put effort into a large batch of virgins to get mated that late.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I've prepped a cell raiser to graft into later today, ninth graft of the season! I won't do many more regular grafts now but will probably raise another batch in August to mate in September to give the mini plus nucs a queen to overwinter with once I've harvested this round of queens I'll be starting later.
Sometimes the bees will naturally supercede as late as October around here but I wouldn't want to put effort into a large batch of virgins to get mated that late.

Blimey, that's a thought over wintered mini nucs I've been donating kieler frames of capped brood to nucs etc.
But I would love to try overwintering kielers?
You say min plus nucs mate? What's the best way to prepare them for winter?

 

[mbc]

Blimey, that's a thought over wintered mini nucs I've been donating kieler frames of capped brood to nucs etc.
But I would love to try overwintering kielers?
You say min plus nucs mate? What's the best way to prepare them for winter?

I have the lyson offerings sold by abelo, really good bits of kit, 6 frames with a central divider so each box will mate 2 queens, for the last round of cells in August the divider gets removed so only one cell per box, also around half the queens will fail to mate (I listened to a talk by Wally Shaw on late season failed matings and he put many down to std's in drones! ) so any failures get united to a success so they mostly overwinter as two boxes, 12 frames.
No idea if this is the best way to prepare them, it's just the way I've evolved a system for my bees in my area.

 

[Ian123]

Blimey, that's a thought over wintered mini nucs I've been donating kieler frames of capped brood to nucs etc.
But I would love to try overwintering kielers?
You say min plus nucs mate? What's the best way to prepare them for winter?

Your not pushing it at all but I’d be inclined to use some standard deep frames in nuc boxes, much easier to deal with build or unite it’s up to you. I’ve wintered minis and it’s fun and worth a go. Now it’s 3 frames in a standard nuc box. Better results all round! As to Wally shaws half late season fail to mate, not in my area it’s probably the best most consistent time to do it.

 

[rolande]

But I would love to try overwintering kielers?

Bit of fun and experience I suppose. But you need to cut the nonsense experiments out if you're aiming at full time beekeeping. Let the OAPs play around with mollycoddling otherwise non-viable units.

You say min plus nucs mate? What's the best way to prepare them for winter?

Mini plus are as good as the small frame mating nucs get. We've still got some of the early lyson ones and a few homemade versions built from OSB3 but we've long since moved on to a slightly different nuc (as described in the 'registry' forum).

One thing for sure, a double box miniplus, as mbc describes, is a brilliant wintering unit which can be split into four, five or six nucs with a cell late next spring. They'll make your life easier rather than adding a lot of faffing about.

 

[tonyofarr]

I will do some more grafts, this last round of queen rearing I had huge vq's but things got a bit chaotic in the mating apiary and loads of them swarmed. I was only going to do one more set of grafts but may have to do more than that.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Thanks guys would the double bs 3 frame nuc be a better bet? I've been using them to great effect this season and like them.
Thanks for the advice as always and I think I'm going to go for another round after this one.
I've freed up some nuc boxes and when the flow finishes I'm going to split some demaree down to 3/6 frame nucs, more of a chance they will survive and I'll leave the oaps to there monicudling

 

[rolande]

@Curly green finger's , pure case of personal preference regarding whether you use the bs nucs or something a bit smaller.... personally I liked the miniplus although I ditched the divisions early on as I was never 100% happy with those boxes split, just didn't seem enough room to work.... And the original lyson plastic frames couldn't be shaved down to 32mm which would have been a good in-house solution..... digressing quite a bit now.

Personally although I *can* see a lot of benefits to the full frame nucs (an uncle of mine favoured bs shallows; another alternative) I think there's a lot of scope for an intermediate frame between full size and the mini nucs.

 

[rolande]

@Curly green finger's , also, the mini plus without a division has approximately the comb area of 2.5 bs combs but arguably in a better configuration.

 

[madasafish]

Blimey, that's a thought over wintered mini nucs I've been donating kieler frames of capped brood to nucs etc.
But I would love to try overwintering kielers?
You say min plus nucs mate? What's the best way to prepare them for winter?

I overwinter Kielers in doubles and singles. BUT they need an insulated cover , feeding on top of the bars done monthly.
Here, no bees go into side feeders in mini nucs in winter - too cold.

 

[pete darbyshire]

I use 2 folding brood frames in each mating hive. At the end of the season they all go into a brood box

 

[Curly green finger's]

I use 2 folding brood frames in each mating hive. At the end of the season they all go into a brood boxView attachment 27315View attachment 27316

Can you explain this a bit more Pete pls.
They look home made?

 

[pete darbyshire]

At the start of the season I put the cleaned and waxed frames into strong colonies to draw the comb. I move the frames to the mating hives when drawn and sometimes laid up. Add a mug of bees shaken from brood frames.2 days in the dark with syrup feed, then out into the mating site. I add grafts or QCs and can get 5 queens per box in a season.
At the end of the season the frames and bees make a new colony or are used to top up other hives.

 

[pete darbyshire]

They are homemade, and for 6 years the wife has not missed her Tupperware containers that make good contact feeders.

 

[Curly green finger's]

At the start of the season I put the cleaned and waxed frames into strong colonies to draw the comb. I move the frames to the mating hives when drawn and sometimes laid up. Add a mug of bees shaken from brood frames.2 days in the dark with syrup feed, then out into the mating site. I add grafts or QCs and can get 5 queens per box in a season.
At the end of the season the frames and bees make a new colony or are used to top up other hives.

Much the same as commercial mini nucs then but using full frames, that's brilliant!
And a lot less hassle by the looks,
You could assec queen viability better with full frames.
Could you share the dimensions of your boxes..
My plans this winter are to utilise wood from work to make my own boxes to save money and have better sustainability across the board, using pine and maybe Douglas fir to make hives.
I also want to up scale my queen rearing production next year.
Are they made of pine?

 

[pete darbyshire]

They took a few years to get right....just added wire floors, but they are perfect for what I do

 

[pete darbyshire]

made of 15mm birch plywood, offcuts from a pattern makers.

 

[Curly green finger's]

made of 15mm birch plywood, offcuts from a pattern makers.

Thanks Peter, the dimensions I'm sure I could work that one out thanks for sharing your very kind.
Good night

 

[mbc]

Your not pushing it at all but I’d be inclined to use some standard deep frames in nuc boxes, much easier to deal with build or unite it’s up to you. I’ve wintered minis and it’s fun and worth a go. Now it’s 3 frames in a standard nuc box. Better results all round! As to Wally shaws half late season fail to mate, not in my area it’s probably the best most consistent time to do it.

The best time to get lots of queens mated is when the bees are doing it naturally the most.
Cells started in August looking to get mated in nucs starting to get that tired look in September often fail in my experience. Some queens dissappear, some get partially mated then fail( a lot of these look a bit roughed up by the bees, hairless ragged looking queens, sometimes with nibbled feet) some hang around and just don't start laying, some start laying but the pattern is unsatisfactory and they need culling and about half (in my experience with my bees in my mating apiaries ) get properly mated and end up being a useful queen.
I'd like the percentages to be better, but as my mum says "if wishes were horses then beggars would ride!"