Dadant-Blatt hive

[Swarm]

You need a chat with Dr Stitson, he runs Dadant Blatt. Haven't seen him post for a while though.

 

[Zante]

Cheers, I'll keep an eye open for him.

 

[Swarm]

There's a beekeeper less than a mile from me who runs Dadants, he is older than me and doesn't appear to have a problem with weight.

 

[madasafish]

There's a beekeeper less than a mile from me who runs Dadants, he is older than me and doesn't appear to have a problem with weight.

So he does not inspect?
(or is a former weightlftter)

 

[Swarm]

I've been meaning to pop along and take a look, same as he mentioned coming to see my polys, I'll have to make an effort this year.
He's no weightlifter, used to own a chip shop.

 

[Millet]

There's a beekeeper less than a mile from me who runs Dadants, he is older than me and doesn't appear to have a problem with weight.

He obviously does not eat as many pies as you.

 

[bjosephd]

Don't know if this still rings true...

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/jumbo.html

 

[stevebrowning]

I use both dadant and langstroth hives. If I started again I would just use langstroths, you can buy a complete hive with 2 supers and wax for £90 and there's more chance of someone local using Lang hives than dadant. Just buy some extra broods and you can make the hive as big as you like, plus you don't have to wait for parts to be shipped.
Just keep it simple

 

[ugcheleuce]

Don't know if this still rings true...
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/jumbo.html

Roger Patterson has some oddball ideas on that page.

The key to understanding his argument, it seems, is that he refers to 35 mm spacing as "Langstroth spacing" and to 38 mm spacing as "Dadant spacing". In reality you can apply either spacing to either box. Even if you use castellated spacers, you can buy them in 35 or in 38 mm, for any hive.

Nowhere on that page does he give external dimensions. But from what I can see, based on what he says, a Dadant US brood box is a Langstroth Jumbo. But Patterson doesn't want to say so.

That said, I find no UK beekeeping stores that sell "Dadant brood" frames and "Langstroth jumbo" frames as being the same frames. So I guess they do differ a bit... but how?

 

[Zante]

That said, I find no UK beekeeping stores that sell "Dadant brood" frames and "Langstroth jumbo" frames as being the same frames. So I guess they do differ a bit... but how?

The Thorne site sells them separately, but gives the same size for both frames
https://www.thorne.co.uk/frames-and-foundations/frames/dadant-frames?product_id=4484
https://www.thorne.co.uk/frames-and-foundations/frames/langstroth-frames?product_id=4496

and if you look at foundation (which I suppose is a good guide for internal size)
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=437
they are sold as the same item.

I'm convinced that the difference on the Thorne site is that the frames are grouped by the hive standard, so all Dadant are under "Dadant frames" and all Langstroth are under "Langstroth frames", so that people with one or the other will look under the hive standard that they have, even if it is the same product.
The foundation instead has a sort of guide that helps you select the correct type of foundation, and all of the sizes are presented together, so Dadant Deep and Langstroth Jumbo are presented as the same product.

 

[Zante]

I use both dadant and langstroth hives. If I started again I would just use langstroths, you can buy a complete hive with 2 supers and wax for £90 and there's more chance of someone local using Lang hives than dadant. Just buy some extra broods and you can make the hive as big as you like, plus you don't have to wait for parts to be shipped.
Just keep it simple

If you started again what would you choose between Langstroth and National?

 

[BeeJayBee]

The Thorne site sells them separately, but gives the same size for both frames
https://www.thorne.co.uk/frames-and-foundations/frames/dadant-frames?product_id=4484
https://www.thorne.co.uk/frames-and-foundations/frames/langstroth-frames?product_id=4496

and if you look at foundation (which I suppose is a good guide for internal size)
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=437
they are sold as the same item.

No, the Dadant top bars are 3mm wider than the Jumbo Langstroth top bars, which means fewer fit into the Langstroth brood box.

The length of the top and side bars, and the foundation, are the same size for both frames.

If you started again what would you choose between Langstroth and National?

I use Lang Jumbos, but would probably choose standard Langstroths if I were starting out and knew what I now know.

I find the extra size makes the frames slightly unwieldy and I'm not entirely convinced that my local bees need the additional space of the larger brood box. They tend to fill more frames with honey during the season than colonies I know of that are on standard Langstroth. It means they have more stores for overwintering, but slightly less for the beekeeper.

I would still choose polystyrene.

 

[ugcheleuce]

No, the Dadant top bars are 3mm wider than the Jumbo Langstroth top bars, which means fewer fit into the Langstroth brood box.

Why would the width of the top bar affect the spacing of the frames?

Surely even if the top bars are 3 mm wider, there would still be more than bee-space between adjacent top bars even if you decide to space them at 35 mm, right? Or... how wide are the Dadant and Langstroth top bars?

Or: are you talking specifically about self-spacing frames (which, if I understand correctly, does not affect spacing due to top bar width but rather due to side bar width)?

 

[stevebrowning]

Langstroth over national, for no other reason than I like them.

 

[stevebrowning]

Why would the width of the top bar affect the spacing of the frames?

Surely even if the top bars are 3 mm wider, there would still be more than bee-space between adjacent top bars even if you decide to space them at 35 mm, right? Or... how wide are the Dadant and Langstroth top bars?

Or: are you talking specifically about self-spacing frames (which, if I understand correctly, does not affect spacing due to top bar width but rather due to side bar width)?

It's the sidebars which are different, I got some langstroth jumbo frames sent to me by mistake, so I can get 12 of them to fit in my dadant hives (which is how I found out I was sent the wrong frames). The bees don't mind, so neither do I.

 

[ugcheleuce]

It's the sidebars which are different, I got some Langstroth Jumbo frames sent to me by mistake, so I can get 12 of them to fit in my Dadant hives (which is how I found out I was sent the wrong frames). The bees don't mind, so neither do I.

I suppose if they are self-spacing frames, you would be able to mix and match those frames even after the bees have built comb in it, right? For non-self-spacing frames, mixing 35 mm and 38 mm frames lead to squashed bees.

 

[Zante]

No, the Dadant top bars are 3mm wider than the Jumbo Langstroth top bars, which means fewer fit into the Langstroth brood box.

The length of the top and side bars, and the foundation, are the same size for both frames.

Ah yes, I hadn't spotted that.

I use Lang Jumbos, but would probably choose standard Langstroths if I were starting out and knew what I now know.

I find the extra size makes the frames slightly unwieldy and I'm not entirely convinced that my local bees need the additional space of the larger brood box. They tend to fill more frames with honey during the season than colonies I know of that are on standard Langstroth. It means they have more stores for overwintering, but slightly less for the beekeeper.

Considering that I'm entering the beekeping world as a hobby, and that I'd probably get from a couple of hives more than I'd use for myself and for presents, leaving more stores to my bees wouldn't be an issue, might even count as a bonus as they'd have an easier winter.

I would still choose polystyrene.

I can see the appeal of polystirene, but being a hobby for me the looks of the hive have a weight in my choice, and I like the look of the wood much more than the polystyrene.
If it's really cold I'd probably build an expanded polystirene box to wrap the hive with when needed, but I doubt it will be necessary.

 

[Zante]

After reading the responses here I've pretty much decided to drop the idea of using those Italian hives. The feature I really liked of them (apart from the price) is that little porch thing they have on the front (and now I can post pictures)

but I'm sure that I can find a supplier that makes their own woodwork and will be willing to do a custom build if I ask nicely.
... and if I don't it's not the end of the world.

I am now looking mostly at either deep national or dartington hives (which use deep nationals anyway).

 

[Fusion_power]

I'm in process of converting from Langstroth deeps to Square Deep Dadant boxes with 31.5 mm frames with a total of 14 frames per box.

I've read about the Buckfast 12 frame Dadant but can't find actual specs. Brother Adam refers to it several times but does not cover interior measurements. I also have not been able to find the center spacing of the frames he used. He described the frames in some detail including the hobnails and screw eyes used for spacing.

 

[Goran]

DB12 at Balkan widelly used.

Sorry I posted a link, but I wanted to compare and I was curious and from two other books different dimensions ( three authors and same hive). So to don't mislead you I deleted the link, cause I don't know which is right.. I don't use it by myself, in nearby Serbia is more used than here. Even they pack it in bee containers..