Cut Comb

[stumorph]

Probably a silly question but as a newbie and not knowing much, Have heard on here and other places about cut comb,using unwired foundation is the foundation edible !!!

 

[johnandyrob]

yes foundation is made from bees wax

 

[ratcatcher]

but seems silly to me, as your then paying out for wax each time, far better to just use wax less frames or a top bar hive

 

[VEG]

The customer pays for the foundation in the higher price you should charge for it.

 

[johnandyrob]

The bees will use up more honey to draw out their own wax. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Hivemaker.]

but seems silly to me, as your then paying out for wax each time, far better to just use wax less frames or a top bar hive

Not really a great expense though,couple of quid for ten sheets which could provide 50 cut combs,sold for say £4 each is a return of £200 for the sake of saving a couple of quid by not buying it,plus less honey used in the comb building and more uniform combs.

 

[Poly Hive]

The investment in most CC kit, as in Cobanas, cut comb foundation, and hanging section frames will seriously pay dividends.

As is often the case with livestock they perform better with some gentle guidance.

PH

 

[itma]

1/ OK, I asked Google. Seems a Cobana is a round 'section' ... (which I had heard of, but not by that name!) supposedly easier for the bees to produce than the awkward square sections, and even sold by big T.

2/ It surprises me that T's sell thin unwired foundation. And Organic foundation. But not thin unwired Organic foundation.
Because thin unwired is the most likely to be consumed by humans, I'd have thought that there would be the greatest interest in a residue-free clean-wax offering of that specification. Either I'm completely wrong (again!) or someone is worried about going out of stock on Organic wax ...
Presumably there are other sources?

 

[Poly Hive]

Most of the foundation makers produce CC foundation.

Frankly I was not aware that there was such a thing as organic foundation, and equally frankly it made me laugh.

Mind you I am old enough to be cynical.

PH

 

[Kevin Pfeiffer]

prganic = pesticide- and miticide-residue free?

Frankly I was not aware that there was such a thing as organic foundation

Does "organic" refer here to pesticide- and miticide-residue free?

 

[Poly Hive]

I suspect no and equally suspect a high price.

PH

 

[stumorph]

thanks

Much thanks for all your advice I was wondring about this as a few people have said they preferd there hony in the comb

 

[itma]

Does "organic" refer here to pesticide- and miticide-residue free?

I suspect no and equally suspect a high price.

PH

On the other hand, I would expect that being pesticide- and miticide-free was the whole point of it!
T's website is silent on the matter of what the certification standard might be, or what that entails. What I think is odd is that it is offered only as BS wired shallow and deeps (at an approx 50% cost premium) -- whereas I would have expected that the primary interest might have been from the producers of premium edible wax products -- cut comb and sections.

 

[Poly Hive]

Totally logical yes.

PH

 

[jackbee]

2/ It surprises me that T's sell thin unwired foundation. And Organic foundation. But not thin unwired Organic foundation.
Because thin unwired is the most likely to be consumed by humans, I'd have thought that there would be the greatest interest in a residue-free clean-wax offering of that specification. Either I'm completely wrong (again!) or someone is worried about going out of stock on Organic wax ...
Presumably there are other sources?

But unless you can guarantee your bees are going to forage on purely organic flowers (pretty nigh impossible in the UK I would have thought) then the majority of the wax and all the honey in the cut comb produced will not be organic so pretty pointless starting with organic foundation

 

[Poly Hive]

Indeed which makes the claims of at least one outfit I can think of a little err....odd?

PH

 

[alanf]

T's website is silent on the matter of what the certification standard might be, or what that entails. What I think is odd is that it is offered only as BS wired shallow and deeps (at an approx 50% cost premium) -- whereas I would have expected that the primary interest might have been from the producers of premium edible wax products -- cut comb and sections.

No description on the sales website, the 2012 Catalogue pdf (p14) has

New for 2012, organic foundation manufactured from certified wax sourced from apiaries in the South Island of New Zealand.

Only in BS National wired deep and shallow so far, presumably one batch in the best selling formats as a trial. If it sells at that price (nearly 60% over 'premium' grade) they may consider more formats including thin shallow unwired. From a practical point of view, it's only ever going to be in limited batches since switching your main production line to organic involves a complete clean down.

I can see the attraction of using the cleanest wax possible for cut comb but selling it with any implication that it's part "organic" may be tricky. As far as I'm aware nobody is sufficiently isolated in the UK for certified organic honey production, it's a crowded island. The definition of organic for sales purposes doesn't allow for organic components; the product is wholly organic or it's not.

 

[Poly Hive]

English organic honey for sale though... which I have always thought... odd.

PH

 

[itma]

But unless you can guarantee your bees are going to forage on purely organic flowers (pretty nigh impossible in the UK I would have thought) then the majority of the wax and all the honey in the cut comb produced will not be organic so pretty pointless starting with organic foundation

While I have no possibility of (or interest in) producing organic honey, I'd have expected that producers of 'comb honey' would have been the most interested in residue-free foundation. No more than that.

You'll recall the recent discussion about the low quality of wax traded-in for use in foundation manufacture. Would you intentionally sell that for people to eat?

 

[Kevin Pfeiffer]

Organic?

But unless you can guarantee your bees are going to forage on purely organic flowers (pretty nigh impossible in the UK I would have thought) then the majority of the wax and all the honey in the cut comb produced will not be organic so pretty pointless starting with organic foundation

But what does "organic" mean? Why would "organic flowers" (whatever that precisely means) be impossible? Are all flowers and meadows in the UK sprayed??

I was of the opinion that it is wise to start with residue-free wax and then recycle one's own (closed circuit?). In the city, at least, the chances then (according to those in DE who have tested) of contamination are minimal.