Cup of bees

[maddydog]

I'm trying mini mating nucs for the first time this year. A cup of bees tends to be the recommended quantity, I've got 20+ to populate so just wondering how a 14*12 frame full of bees relates to a cup?

Thanks

 

[madasafish]

I shake bees from a super (no drones) into a cardboard box, spray lightly with water and then use a plastic child's mug.. Apideas get 1 full mug, Kielers get two.

I don't take bees from brood frames - drones and possibly older bees..

 

[Poly Hive]

https://poly-hive.co.uk/recourses/b...eral-management/use-of-the-marburg-swarm-box/

A Marburg Swarm Box is somehing I have long wanted to build. One of these days....

Sorry there is no illustation on the page. But see below.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/434245589059376523/ top left.

PH

 

[B+.]

https://poly-hive.co.uk/recourses/b...eral-management/use-of-the-marburg-swarm-box/

A Marburg Swarm Box is somehing I have long wanted to build. One of these days....

Sorry there is no illustation on the page. But see below.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/434245589059376523/ top left.

PH

You can buy them here https://www.holtermann-shop.de/Ablegerkaesten/Feglingskaesten/

 

[Noddy]

A Marburg Swarm Box is somehing I have long wanted to build. One of these days....

You see those a heck of a lot in German and Danish bee breeding videos on youtube. Shouldn't be too difficult to convert a ply nuc into one of those......

 

[maddydog]

I don't take bees from brood frames - drones and possibly older bees..

As I posted I realized I meant to say national supers (for the reasons you stated) but thought I'd just extrapolate from 14*12 rather than edit it.

How many full national shallow frames equal a cup do you reckon? 2ish?

The reason I ask is that I'll be setting up the mini nucs away from where I'll be shaking the bees and I'd rather not undershoot the quantity

 

[madasafish]

As I posted I realized I meant to say national supers (for the reasons you stated) but thought I'd just extrapolate from 14*12 rather than edit it.

How many full national shallow frames equal a cup do you reckon? 2ish?

The reason I ask is that I'll be setting up the mini nucs away from where I'll be shaking the bees and I'd rather not undershoot the quantity

I reckonned in full summer that 1 super = 2 to 3 cups..

 

[B+.]

As I posted I realized I meant to say national supers (for the reasons you stated) but thought I'd just extrapolate from 14*12 rather than edit it.

How many full national shallow frames equal a cup do you reckon? 2ish?

The reason I ask is that I'll be setting up the mini nucs away from where I'll be shaking the bees and I'd rather not undershoot the quantity

It really depends on how densely they are covering the frames

 

[maddydog]

I reckonned in full summer that 1 super = 2 to 3 cups..

 

[maddydog]

It really depends on how densely they are covering the frames

Hehe that's very true. Thanks to madasafish I've got a start.

 

[masterBK]

I stock my Apideas by volume specifically 300mls of bees. I shake bees off frames from a demaree top to ensure I get young bees. GThey are shaken into plastic box, misted with water, box banged to get them into a corner then bees scooped up using a cut down 2 pint plastic milk bottle.

 

[mickbees23]

We are taught that small colonies breed weak queens, so why would you want to raise queens this way.?

That's not a criticism, I am interested in your thinking as its part of the BBKA husbandry exam I think and I wonder why its promoted if it only breeds weak queens.

Cheers, Mick.

 

[Curley]

Hi Mick

The queen cells are raised in strong colonies and therefore fed well. The ripe, capped queen cells are introduced into the mini-nucs purely for the purpose of getting the queens mated. It is done this way as it is more economical with bees. Some people use 2 or 3 framed nucs.

 

[Poly Hive]

There is also the thinking that the colony being so small puts more pressure on the virgin to get going out there and get mated. In poorer weather that may be the reality.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

There was some research done (don't have ref to hand) that showed that queens mated in smaller volume hives mated with fewer drones before returning to lay. Meaning less diversity in the offspring (weaker hive?).
I can't be sure but I think they intimated that they ran out of sperm earlier....which I thought was a bit strange as they take on board far more sperm than they ever need and get rid of most of it.

 

[B+.]

There was some research done (don't have ref to hand) that showed that queens mated in smaller volume hives mated with fewer drones before returning to lay. Meaning less diversity in the offspring (weaker hive?).
I can't be sure but I think they intimated that they ran out of sperm earlier....which I thought was a bit strange as they take on board far more sperm than they ever need and get rid of most of it.

In a similar vein, I remember reading that the queens movement inside the hive after mating aided the movement of sperm into the spermatheca. This was more so in larger nucs than in smaller ones (there was some discussion on whether this was due to the amount of movement, the warmth inside the nuc, or a combination of the two).
The point being, the queen retained more sperm so made bigger colonies for longer than in smaller nucs.

 

[masterBK]

I have been using Apideas to get queens mated for several years (previously used 3 and 5 standard frame nuclei). The queens are used in double brood colonies and generally produce between 16 and 19 frames of brood. I have not noticed any difference between these and other queens (from same batch of queen cells produced using cupkit) that got mated from Demaree tops apart from the fact that in the Apideas the queens get mated and begin laying a few days earlier. However as I only rear about 50 queens a year such observations can't be considered statistically significant.

 

[Finman]

In a similar vein, I remember reading that the queens movement inside the hive after mating aided the movement of sperm into the spermatheca. This was more so in larger nucs than in smaller ones (there was some discussion on whether this was due to the amount of movement, the warmth inside the nuc, or a combination of the two).
The point being, the queen retained more sperm so made bigger colonies for longer than in smaller nucs.

Queens put to final store about 10% out of mating sperm. The spermatheca is about same size. If I remember correct, emergency Queen has smaller spermatheca. But I have never counted they sperm and they seems to have it enough every year.

They mate when they mate. Not much to be done to the weathers.
.

 

[Finman]

There was some research done (don't have ref to hand) that showed that queens mated in smaller volume hives mated with fewer drones before returning to lay. Meaning less diversity in the offspring (weaker hive?).
I
.

Professional Queen rearers use apideas. I cannot imagine that it makes any problems in the quality if the Queen.

Only what can see is the size of the colony.

Fewer drones.... Diversity of offsprings.... No one regret what excluder does to mating and diversity.

Your problem in UK is that you hive density is too big. Even if you have how much better queens, you flowers do not have more nectar.

Absolutism goes really too far on these discussions

.

 

[B+.]

Professional Queen rearers use apideas. I cannot imagine that it makes any problems in the quality if the Queen.

Of course there are. I use them myself (for instrumentally inseminated queens) although MiniPlus has a lot more space for the queen to lay.
Island mated queens have even less space in the ewk (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3751) which is why they must be transferred to larger units. These are too small to keep them productive.
The key feature is that they are all insulated.