Crystals in sugar solution

[cornishcreamtea]

I did a shook (shock) swarm on my hive last week as my bees have tested positive for nosema since last autumn. I am therefore feeding 2:1 sugar solution, but when I checked the feed today very little has been taken down, probably because it has crystallised. When I make up the sugar solution I use boiling water, but also put the saucepan on a low heat to speed up the dissolving process. Is this why it has crystallised? I have read in previous threads of people just using hot water, stirring and leaving it, but my sugar never seems to dissolve completely like that, and I always end up having to warm it up on the stove. Most of the time, I just use fondant, but I understand from the experts that sugar solution is better for building comb - but maybe I should just give them fondant now? What do you think?

 

[Davelin]

You should be feeding 1:1 syrup at this time of year for comb building.

Should dissolve easily at this concentration.

 

[enrico]

Make sure you do imperial measures and not metric! 1:1 for wax....2:1 for autumn feed, surprised you need any feed in Wiltshire at this time of the year!
E

 

[cornishcreamtea]

I'm feeding because they have brand new frames with new foundation, so need to build comb. My main question, however, is why my sugar solution crystallises - this happens whether I make up 1:1 or 2:1.

 

[enrico]

Metric or imperial? And I say again 1:1 to build wax

 

[oliver90owner]

Nothing to do with concentration if 1:1 is crystallising. You have it wrong, if it is, or your sugar is not pure

What type of feeder are you using? Is there plenty of income already? I think you may be looking at the wrong things. Think of how the bees are progressing, not just how much syrup they are consuming.

Your priority is the bees not the syrup.

 

[cornishcreamtea]

Thanks, Oliver, you've got my gist! I use Tate & Lyle or Silver Spoon granulated sugar. I made up the solution two weeks before I needed it, and stored it in well-washed plastic squash bottles in my bee shed. I use a 4 pint round rapid feeder, dribbling a little down the centre, so the bees know it's there. The rape is in full bloom round here, but they're not bringing much in as far as I can see from the outside (I'm leaving them for a week without disturbing them after the shock of the shook swarm, so won't open up until Monday). They are probably weakened by the nosema, and I expected them to take the sugar solution down quickly to build comb. I've given them fresh sugar solution today, but if they don't take it, or it crystallises again, I think I'll revert to the fondant.

 

[itma]

You are trying to mix a too-strong sugar solution.
There is a limit to how much it will hold.
This is higher (more sugar) at higher temperature - like when you are mixing.

You have mixed 2kg of sugar with 1 litre of water.
When it gets cold (like recent nights), that will drop crystals.

As Enrico has tried to point out, that mix is the wrong fuel for comb-drawing. (Its nearly the right stuff for storing.)
For comb-drawing, you want a much weaker, more watery, mix.

For every litre of water in your first mix, add roughly an extra one and a half litres of water.
If you can get that watery mix to crystallise … well, you'd have something special!

To start from scratch - mix a pound of sugar with a pint of water. If you must use metric measures, then for every kilo of sugar (2.2 pounds) you want about 2.2 pints of water which comes out at about 1.25 litres. That's the stuff for comb-drawing!

 

[drstitson]

2:1 is simple - sugar in bucket and add boiling water up to same level. stir and it'll dissolve. no measurement needed.

but as stated above the bees need 1:1 now. it's sugar to use not to store.

 

[Easy Beesy]

Shook swarm is for strong healthy colony. Bailey is recommended for colony stressed by nosema. They are in a weakened state - no fondant. Keep them warm and feed 1:1 to help them recover.

 

[cornishcreamtea]

Many thanks for all the advice. I replaced the 2:1 sugar solution with 1:1 last weekend. Today I find they have taken very little of it over the week - about half a pint I estimate, and there is mould around the inside of the feeder, and in the solution. I am fed up! What will happen to their comb-building if I replace the solution with fondant?

 

[oliver90owner]

Look at the bees' progress.

Are they building comb? Are they brooding? Is it now a too small colony in a too large space?

Was the nosema count particularly high? Did anyone tell you about thymolated sugar feed in the autumn?

Are they foraging, or not very much? How has your weather been this last week?

I am thinking there is more of an issue, here, than a few sugar crystals. Crystals will make no difference to a rapid feeder. They will likely ignore the feed if it is off, or they don't need it, or perhaps if too cold/weak to make comb.

A change to fondant? Seems as though that, on its own, will make no difference and they would need to forage water to use it anyway.

Lots of questions which need answering.

 

[cornishcreamtea]

Thymolated sugar syrup? I thought we couldn't use thymol now?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Thymolated sugar syrup? I thought we couldn't use thymol now?

Did anyone tell you about thymolated sugar feed in the autumn?

Bees heavily infected with Nosema will usually not take sugar syrup well, often not at all, they have tummy ache and need treating.

 

[cornishcreamtea]

Treat with what exactly? I understood thymol was banned and no other chemical treatment exists?

 

[Hivemaker.]

I understood thymol was banned

From where did you get that?

Treat with what exactly?

There are a number of feed additives that can help prevent and clear up nosema problems, Nosevit, Vita feed, Emulsified Thymol, etc, and then re queen.

 

[Davelin]

There was a treatment for nosema called fumadil b that is no longer available. Perhaps this is what you were thinking of.

Debatable as to whether it cured it or simply masked the symptoms anyway.

 

[cornishcreamtea]

So what do I treat with?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Thymol is the stuff of life for colonies. If you think it has been banned PLEASE read everything on here about it, especially Hivemaker's stickies. And catch up on Oxalic Acid too; your bees will thank you. eg thymol will allow you to keep solution that you otherwise really should throw away.

 

[Davelin]

There is nothing that will treat nosema directly. All you can do is try to nurture them back to health. A comb change will help but they will only build comb in their own time.

I have used vitafeed gold in the past and colonies have got back up to strength, but whether they would have anyway who knows.