Critical part of the AS procedure. Discuss

[Poly Hive]

I keep reading about people leaving two queen cells in the moved part of the AS situation.

I strongly think this is wrong as it is asking for a cast to occur.

I leave one open cell with the youngest grub I can find so as to leave as long as possible before they have an emerging virgin and as stated ONE only.

Why? To give as long as possible to allow the "swarm fever" to be quenched and replaced with some anxiety as to when she emerges and gets mated.

Where is this leave two advice from?

Anyway please discuss.

PH

 

[Finman]

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I do not pick queen cells off. I let them reviele out which win the final. But brood hive may swarm, and that is why I am going to use excluder to stop every swarm escape.

I see from queen cells, what they are aiming. If they break the queen cells when the first queen emerges, they do not swarm.

If they do not break, then they continues swarming. Not many do this but one is too much.

It has been 100% sure that if I give foundations to old queen + flying swarm, they do not swarm.
If I give drawn combs, some hives start again queen cell rearing.
'
Clipping the queens wing is very important that the swarm does not escape.
I clip it before swarm season, but every year I forget some queen....another stories.

But however, results of AS are splended when you do it in time. When you see milk in queen cells, do it!

Keep your furnitures ready to install: bottom, box, foundations and cover.
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[Swarm]

Another 'just in case' approach. I leave one for the reason you've mentioned.

 

[For want of a better word]

I was told to remove ALL queen cells but never ever ever to touch a superceedure cell if present on an AS
Also to ensure that one frame containing eggs was put in with each of the boxes of the split, queen seen or not!

Probably wrong .....but there you go !!!!

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I leave 1 open queencell. If you still have the queen that laid the eggs for the queencell, that's certainly fine. If I had one colony and lost the queen I would take off a nuc with one queencell and leave one in the hive.

I HAVE seen duff queencells where there is no queen or a small bee the wrong way around (dead or alive). These sometimes look 'not quite right' but I would never put money on it.

When the colony is bled of bees one week after an A/S by moving it to the other side then there is a better chance of one queen only surviving.

 

[oliver90owner]

Also to ensure that one frame containing eggs was put in with each of the boxes of the split, queen seen or not!

The justification for this is? I can't see any, so an explanation, please.

 

[Poly Hive]

A "sealed" queen cell with a worker in it has successfully emerged, and the trapdoor put back by the bees, one of their little tricks BTW. Why they seal in the robbing worker seems to be unknown.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Padgen refined the A/S into a complete procedure designed to ensure the optimum results. Just follow it is the main point, I would have thought. Not try to reinvent the wheel. It seems fairly straightforward to follow a set of instructions.

Adding your own personal quirks can come later when more experienced, but not needed to be foisted them on those at the learning stage. KISS principle.

 

[For want of a better word]

Also to ensure that one frame containing eggs was put in with each of the boxes of the split, queen seen or not!

The justification for this is? I can't see any, so an explanation, please.

Possibly so bees could have the chance of producing a queen from the eggs if all else failed...... no idea why... just something I was told to do.

My guess is by the time all had failed it would be too late for the bees to have any chance of bringing on a queen from the eggs anyway.....

OP did say discuss did he not !!!​

 

[oliver90owner]

no idea why... just something I was told to do.

Thought so. Pointless. Waste of time, etc etc. Obviously never thought about it before. There's a step forward!

 

[mbc]

no idea why... just something I was told to do.

Thought so. Pointless. Waste of time, etc etc. Obviously never thought about it before. There's a step forward!

The point is that the queen is less likely to be balled by the bees if they have a certain amount of the smell of the original colony transferred into their new box.
Pointless ignorant criticism is a definite step backwards IMO

 

[YorkshireBees]

I would never again leave more than one queencell (sealed or unsealed) in any AS!
I made that mistake in a nuc I made up last year and they swarmed, leaving the nuc with a dlq!
Lesson learned.

 

[mbc]

Where is this leave two advice from?

Anyway please discuss.

PH

The advice is from Bees at the bottom of the garden by Alan Campion, which has the clearest description of an AS I've ever read.

Personally, I dont think its critical how many queen cells are left, rather its important to only leave open cells so as to ensure the timing of the second move is effective in denuding the AS'd hive of a further batch of flying bees, taking away their "desire" to throw a cast.

 

[Finman]

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Hives have often "hidden" queen cells what is very difficult to see. They make surprises.

 

[Davidwd]

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Hives have often "hidden" queen cells what is very difficult to see. They make surprises.

i have just done my first AS, I used the method of shaking all the bees into a new BB, QE on top and then the old BB with the brood on top of the QE.

The advantage of this method i found was that with the bees safely in the new BB you have time to check all the frames of brood for queen cells with no bees in the way!

D

 

[Poly Hive]

I think he is merely parroting from others MBC.

Leaving two.... dangerous.

PH

 

[Erichalfbee]

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It has been 100% sure that if I give foundations to old queen + flying swarm, they do not swarm.
If I give drawn combs, some hives start again queen cell rearing.
'
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I've done only a few AS....in my third year so few opportunities. I was taught two but have left only one on advice from this forum.
Always put old queen on foundation(bar the frame she was on) but this year because of the dire weather and few stores I put in one frame of stores. They built swarm cells on it !!

 

[Finman]

i The advantage of this method i found was that with the bees safely in the new BB you have time to check all the frames of brood for queen cells with no bees in the way!

D

And you may loose the brood when no bees are taking care about them and keeping warm.
really bad!

 

[Finman]

Always put old queen on foundation(bar the frame she was on) but this year because of the dire weather and few stores I put in one frame of stores. They built swarm cells on it !!

I made 25 AS last summer. I put to the foundation box 3 frames crystallized honey and one brood frame and laying queen. No hive made queen cells.

I have followed the queen. It waits 3 days that several foundations has been drawn. I do not know why. Then it start to lay and it lays in a week that one box. when week is gone, the honey frames are full of brood and foundations has been drawn.

But perhaps it depends on strain of bees how eager thay are swarm.

 

[Davidwd]

And you may loose the brood when no bees are taking care about them and keeping warm.
really bad!

It was about 11C outside and The nurse bees soon moved up from the bottom bb through the QE to the brood.
Is it possible the brood could have got chilled?
Now I am concerned.