Creating a nuc??

[Hawklord]

Thankyou Finman.

At the moment I just have the 11 frames that they are using and foundation waiting to be used. I wanted to add a second brood chamber last year but by the time they were ready for a second box (September) a full brood box was too much, so I gave them a super. They managed to draw 5 frames and began working another 2 in the super.

 

[RoofTops]

My suggestion seems to be getting a bit of stick here. All I can say is I put a second brood chamber of foundation on a hive on 13 April last year and by mid-May this upper box had 7 of the 10 frames with brood with about 8 out of 10 in the bottom one - the total was 15. I then split this colony 4 ways, which is what I think is the aim here. It was on a field of oil seed rape at the time so had both pollen and nectar available which would have been a benefit. And I got a good crop of honey too.

I use poly hives which makes a difference but there are plenty of beekeepers with wooden Langstroths who use double brood chambers.

 

[Poly Hive]

There are two different conditions being discussed here. Finman, whom I do respect is talking about his Continental conditions similar to the USA. Since when do we get weather to have four brood boxes of brood? He obviously does and so do the North Americans.

I am on the other hand talking about UK conditions though I have the vast bulk of my experience in NE Scotland.

So if you have a brood box getting to needing more space and you only have foundation to offer what do you do? If you delay too long you will trigger swarming and that is a route to avoid.

So my advice based on UK conditions is as previously posted. Add that 2nd brood box when the first one is up to 8 or 9 frames of brood and keep the bees as warm as possible. Insulation on the crown board and feed. Yes the bees need protein, no argument, and that is supplied via pollen and if you have a colony up to 8 frames of brood then they *should* be strong enough to supply them selves.

Hawklord I hope this is of interest or am I writing to myself here?

PH

 

[Finman]

.

I am on the other hand talking about UK conditions though I have the vast bulk of my experience in NE Scotland.

So if you have a brood box getting to needing more space and you only have foundation to offer what do you do? If you delay too long you will trigger swarming and that is a route to avoid.



PH

You have allways same song. Never learn. What special is in NE Scotland. All wise have moved to America 200 years ago.

You need not to be A Scottish to understand that put foudations if you not have anything else. And if you do not have foundations, put an empty box. You not need even top bars.

But now we were handling a case that a guy has one fox combs and hes is making 4 hive more from nothing. And another Scottish tell that feed feed and feed syrup and so it goes.

And you say me stupid Poly. I can grow better nucs than you have never seen. Nothing odd in your national weather. Mere imagination.

****************

I have discussed much with Hivemaker and we have very similar way to nurse bees.

.

.

 

[Finman]

Since when do we get weather to have four brood boxes of brood? He obviously does and so do the North Americans.

PH

Edited by Admin.

 

[BKF Admin]

Finman remember the forum rule:

Always kick the ball not the player

 

[Somerford]

FM - to be fair, the conditions in NE Scotland are quite different from other parts of the UK, which are some 700 miles further south and therefore subject to a warm maritime climate - thie inevitably affects the hive management accordingly.

The seasons come some 6-9 weeks later in the North vs Cornwall for example, dependant on the year. I am sure both you and Poly are equally capable nuc makers.

regards

S

 

[Hawklord]

Hawklord I hope this is of interest or am I writing to myself here?

PH

If anybody is willing to impart knowledge and experience concerning a subject I'm interested in I will always listen - but don't expect me to simply nod my head in agreeance. Thanks for your input everybody.

 

[Poly Hive]

Thanks Hawklord. Just a simple thanks for the info is always acceptable.

Meanwhile as the topic is seemingly causing wrinkles I am off this thread.

PH

 

[gavin]

Hi Hawklord

If we can recap, we have a beekeeper from Finland (shan't name him Admin) who insults anyone who presents a different view than his own, and uses unusual practices and keeps his bees in a totally different environment than most of us. I suspect that some of his comments on the sense of feeding comes from his experiences in Finland where there is no spring but winter suddenly flips into summer.

We also have several experienced UK-based beekeepers who are mostly saying add that second box at the right time, when they are near filling their first, and go down a number of different possible routes once you have that second box well used.

Some are suggesting that you buy queens, I'm more in the natural mating camp.

The possibility I gave came from Hoopers book Guide to Bees and Honey, and is one of the best and simplest ways for a beginner to make increase beyond simple artificial swarming. However you will need nuc boxes if you are doing a three-way split from one of two brood boxes. It is also possible to use ply dividers and a special 3-way (or two-way or four-way) floor, then you can raise more colonies in a standard brood box sitting on top of its parent brood box.

Hawklord, the bees' impulse early in the season is to build up to a big colony. Give them the space (and feed if you like, no matter what was said earlier) and they will fill it with brood if they are a vigorous colony. No need to mix things up as you described. Once their brood nest is up to their preferred size they will maintain that nest and lay in stores. In their own natural cycle they will then fill their space, feel cramped, and go reproductive. If you wish them to raise new queens for you rather than buying them in, encourage that cramped feeling.

all the best

Gavin

 

[RoofTops]

These two pictures might help show how quickly, under the right conditions, a colony can fill a second brood chamber.

The first picture was taken 13 April and the hive on the left has just had a second brood box of foundation added. The second picture was taken on 23 April by which time the bees had drawn out much of the second box and now needed a super. The queen had already moved up into the second box and was laying. All in 10 days.

The hive covered in bees had just been inspected and the vicous brutes were still unhappy! The queen was later replaced.

 

[gavin]

And here (and in Yorkshire) the timetable will just be 1-3 weeks later. From that stage, on many occasions, after they've largely filled that super John put on (maybe a week or two later, often late in the rape flowering season) I've 'persuaded' them to raise queen cells. Rearrange the boxes so that queen and sealed brood are below, then QX, then super, QX and other brood box with unsealed brood and eggs on top. Nurse bees go up, and the distance from the queen encourages them to raise Q cells, especially if they were already running out of space. Once these Q cells are sealed you can split the top box and create three nucs in nuc boxes, or divide the top box with dividers and put under that box a Wedmore-Slade floor that gives them three separate entrances.

The bottom brood box with the old queen will replenish and carry on as a productive colony if the old queen is up to it.

Of course another way is to stock splits with bought-in queens, but the majority of UK beekeepers raise their own in one way or another.

all the best

Gavin

 

[Stiffy]

Finman remember the forum rule:

Always kick the ball not the player

Not that I want to stick up for anyone as I am sure they are well able to do this themselves but I am sure many posts from our Finnish pal get 'lost in translation' and we shouldn't be too hard on him. If he posted in Finnish how many of us would be able to take advantage of the knowledge he surely has and I for one would certainly miss the 'Colemanballs' that sometimes get posted!

 

[BKF Admin]

I agree Stiffy,Finman does have much knowledge to pass on.
What has got lost in translation here is that I had to delete a couple of posts he made in a mad 5 minutes that were very insulting,because I removed them it looks like I have pulled him up for posts left in the thread rather than for the ones I removed.