Complete mess in the brood box

[radhartgeorge]

Since my last inspection, my bees have managed to draw comb between most of the central frames (perhaps 6-8) in the 14x12 brood box. This meant that when I attempted to lift out the frames to inspect, the comb was pulled out of the frame causing a complete mess and left me with some fairly annoyed bees.

I decided against attempting to get any more frames out- mainly through fear of squashing the queen and instead put on an additional standard brood box above with 8 frames of new foundation and 3 frames of drawn foundation (positioned centrally) I had available from previous years. Above this is the QE and supers which have just been extracted.

My hope is that the bees will draw out the frames in the new brood box, once they do this, the queen will move up and start laying in the new frames and I can then put an additional QE between the brood boxes to prevent the queen laying in the old 14x12. Let the old bees hatch for 4 weeks and then remove the old brood box and refresh with new foundation.

Throughout this process I'll also be feeding them sugar syrup.

My question is, am I doing the right thing? Is there anything I'm missing?

 

[JWF]

Since my last inspection, my bees have managed to draw comb between most of the central frames (perhaps 6-8) in the 14x12 brood box. This meant that when I attempted to lift out the frames to inspect, the comb was pulled out of the frame causing a complete mess and left me with some fairly annoyed bees.

I decided against attempting to get any more frames out- mainly through fear of squashing the queen and instead put on an additional standard brood box above with 8 frames of new foundation and 3 frames of drawn foundation (positioned centrally) I had available from previous years. Above this is the QE and supers which have just been extracted.

My hope is that the bees will draw out the frames in the new brood box, once they do this, the queen will move up and start laying in the new frames and I can then put an additional QE between the brood boxes to prevent the queen laying in the old 14x12. Let the old bees hatch for 4 weeks and then remove the old brood box and refresh with new foundation.

Throughout this process I'll also be feeding them sugar syrup.

My question is, am I doing the right thing? Is there anything I'm missing?

I would have put the undrawn comb further out to encourage up into the new BB as soon as possible, but probably not a huge issue while it's still warm.

I agree about the Qx once you know she's moved up, and removal of the lower BB once the brood has all hatched. Surely you won't need to put that BB back on to the colony this year, as the size should be starting to reduce. Or are you planning on overwintering on a double brood?

Edited to add - do you know why the brace comb was built? Were your frames not spaced properly?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

wrong time of the year to effect a Bailey change. Looks like a spacing issue with the jumbo frames to me - Hoffmans, spacers or castellations?

 

[Erichalfbee]

14x12 has enough room for bees and stores for winter. Do you know I would be tempted to leave well alone. Don't look in the brood box at all till spring. Treat, feed...close up and Bailey next Spring.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the time for weekly inspections hass long passed

 

[Millet]

the time for weekly inspections hass long passed

My last poke about in the brood box was just shy of a fortnight ago and that is me done now till next year, from what i have learned up to now i do not see the point in pulling the brood nest apart and giving them more work to do repairing everything, especially when they have more important things too do preparing for the winter.

 

[radhartgeorge]

Thanks all for your input. I didn't realise what I was suggesting was called a 'Bailey' - good to know.

Clearing up some matters:

JWF- I put the undrawn foundation at the edges and the three or so drawn frames in the middle. I think this is what you were suggesting so we are in agreement.

Regarding the double brood for wintering, it was not my intention but I am tempted (as Erichalfbee suggests) to leave it alone all together until spring... other than putting on castellated spacers this weekend to ensure the same thing doesn't happen with the top brood box! My only concern would be the effort of keeping a double brood box warm enough- should I be concerned?

In any case, I am treating them now (1 week into the 4 week treatment) and plan on giving them plenty of syrup to give them the best chance of surviving winter.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Regarding the double brood for wintering, it was not my intention but I am tempted (as Erichalfbee suggests) to leave it alone all together until spring... other than putting on castellated spacers this weekend to ensure the same thing doesn't happen with the top brood box!.

so you're still going ahead with slamming another brood box on top?
The advice was to leave well alone until spring (in other words, don't put another brood box on top to stress the colony out) don't fiddle and sort it out in the spring.
What castellations are you planning (ie 9,10,11 frames?) and what have you been using thus far?

 

[radhartgeorge]

I thought the suggestion was just not to bother removing the bottom brood box until Spring?

As I said in the original post, I have already put the a second brood box on top. This would not be difficult to remove however... in fact I was going to do just this when I swap the current box for one with castellated runners (11 frames) this weekend. Currently they are spaced with blue plastic spacer rings which I find very irritating.

There really is quite a mess in the bottom box- at least 2 frames complexly destroyed- with the comb leaning up against the neighbouring frames. The idea of leaving it like this doesn't sit well with me but is perhaps more to do with my desire for tidiness than the best conditions for the bees...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

you're really going to stress the colony out trying to get them to move up into a new box at this time of the year - get rid of the new top box and feed for winter. In the spring, as they expand and there's plenty of forage just put a new box on top and let them move up in their own time.

 

[Erichalfbee]

There really is quite a mess in the bottom box- at least 2 frames complexly destroyed- with the comb leaning up against the neighbouring frames. The idea of leaving it like this doesn't sit well with me

How long do you think the bees have been like this?
Are they thriving/collecting nectar and pollen? I bet they are so they obviously are sitting well. All they need is a warm weather tight box.
I agree with JBM and I did indeed mean you to leave them in one box.
As for castellations...they are,by and large and excepting a few beekeepers' foibles, best left to the supers. Your replacement brood box that you should put on in Spring should have Hoffman frames and there should be 11 plus a dummy board in the box.

 

[Anduril]

If you are using a 14x12 brood box, you should have 14x12 Hoffman frames, by placing the edges together there should not be an issue of extra comb drawn out. If you use castellated spacers in the brood box it would have to be for 11 frames, when you do your manipulations with castellated spacers the problem you may encounter is rolling the bees which will make them angry.