commercial swarm lures: Useful or useless?

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Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
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Location
Gower, where all the fun happens
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
24 + a few nucs....this has to stop!
I have been building a few nuc boxes and swarm boxes over the winter ready for the swarming season. I haven't placed any previously so wanted to give it a go to see what is around. After all we all love swarms, they are free and are the best for drawing frames.
What is your experience with commercial lures, are they yet another way to make you spend your hard earned cash or do they work? Would a bit of lemongrass essential oil work as well? Thanks
 
I've just purchased Swarm C from Blythewood B Co in America. Its taken ten days to come and is supposed to be the #1 swarm lure in America. I'm going to give it a try in some swarm catcher hives set up in my garden and around my apiary.
It's supposed to be a synthesised copy of the nasanov pheromone according to its creator Scott Derrick.
 
I have been building a few nuc boxes and swarm boxes over the winter ready for the swarming season. I haven't placed any previously so wanted to give it a go to see what is around. After all we all love swarms, they are free and are the best for drawing frames.
What is your experience with commercial lures, are they yet another way to make you spend your hard earned cash or do they work? Would a bit of lemongrass essential oil work as well? Thanks

Never used such a thing.....the lemon grass too. A couple of older but disease free combs in the box are as good as most though.


However........remember a few year back reading a French magazine article on the subject. The author had apparently tried most things including commercial swarm lures. His conclusion was that the most effective swarm lure was......'faire pisser dans le ruche'.
 
Hmm I think I prefer Lemongrass oil myself.

Lanton is going to reek of it...LOL

PH
 
I've just purchased Swarm C from Blythewood B Co in America. Its taken ten days to come and is supposed to be the #1 swarm lure in America. I'm going to give it a try in some swarm catcher hives set up in my garden and around my apiary.
It's supposed to be a synthesised copy of the nasanov pheromone according to its creator Scott Derrick.

Them American bees will sure be tired once they have flown over the big pond to there American swarm lure..
 
One or two old combs in an otherwise empty used brood box (or nuc if you want casts e.g. for the queens), with lemongrass essential oil at the entrance and on the top bars - works well for me.
If it is a new box, I also scatter a little wax, propolis and dead bees on the floor to give that essential lived-in appeal (all disease free as ITLD has pointed out).
I have tried a couple of the commercial lures but they were not effective.
 
I've used lemongrass and old comb in different bait hives, both have worked after a similar length of time.

Using an old frame is best for getting a swarm out of an awkwardly shaped tree, they just walk straight onto it. They don't always do the same with anything baited with lemongrass.
 
Slightly counter intuitively, I believe if scouts from a swarm are investigating fairly equal-ish cavities they will more often than not choose ones near other bees, success breeds success I suppose.
Old comb gets them to have a look in the first place.
 
That's a good point, because my most successful bait hives are close to my main apiary.

It's brilliant hearing, and then seeing, a swarm arrive and then wondering who's lost half their bees!
 
I have been building a few nuc boxes and swarm boxes over the winter ready for the swarming season. I haven't placed any previously so wanted to give it a go to see what is around. After all we all love swarms, they are free and are the best for drawing frames.
What is your experience with commercial lures, are they yet another way to make you spend your hard earned cash or do they work? Would a bit of lemongrass essential oil work as well? Thanks

Ive tried a lot of different ones. but overall "In to the lions den's" comment is correct i would say.
The best and most important thing is just clean dark black comb.

Ive tried and still use Nasanov ampoules in each hive, with 5 drops of lemon grass oil in each trap. These as sold as different products, but essentially they contain synthetic Nasanov
http://www.icko-apiculture.com/fr/swarm-catch-le-pack-de-5.html

Their not essential and help more so, in the later stages of when a swarm arrives.(Pherotec make them) but you can get them from many outlets. I haven't tried the flea bay ones as they don't seem genuine.
Ive also tried "Swarm Commander"last year from America, but i cant say whether it made any difference. I caught swarms but no more than usual. Its a very strong product and i was fearful of putting too much on the hive frames and near the trap entrance,
You can also crush up old queens and put them in alcohol, this is supposed to be good too, but it depends if you've got and old queens lol.

However the best thing you can do is have a box of about 40 litres in volume (thats proven to be the mean average)
A box or old nuc box thats been well propolised
old comb, but clean with no pollen or more important, no old honey or stores. That will attract other insects such as wasps and hornets.
Pollen in swarm traps seems to attract more wax moths, but also i spray half the frame with the biological control bacillus thrugiensis. this dries out and remains as a pretty good control against any larvae from wax moth that may hatch out.
If you have a hive and or apiary or know the position of a colony, then historically the trap or bait hive should be approx 200 meters from this. Its not a guarantee and often they can travel 10km if they go with the wind. Ive had swarms turned up from odd places. This is just what the books generally say. Sometimes bees just won't go there, they do the complete opposite, as is beekeeping.
 
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Just to add a bit to the excellent response from Richard.

Bait hives / swarm traps work best when well clear of ground level. 6 feet, or more, is considered best. I you have access to a flat section on a house roof it is normally an excellent place to catch swarms.

Obviously this brings lifting climbing and safety issues, but even sitting on top of an old barrel is better than on a hive stand.

Also.....when a colony is scouting for a spot to go to the place they end up is often the first choice. So, when a swarm arrives, as soon as you possibly can, with 24 hours I would say, close it in and take it away to a remote apiary if you have one, and put a second bait hive on exactly the same spot.

You will often get the secondary swarm (caste or cast according to what you read in the past) as well, when you do repeat the process again.

More than one swarming colony in the area may also have selected the same prime real estate.

OK, so half of them will only catch the one swarm, but half will catch more than one.....best was five in 12 days into the same position of bait hive.

Was not near other bees, but WAS at our home base, full of nice bee smelling kit, so quite a swarm magnet.
 
Just to add a bit to the excellent response from Richard.

Bait hives / swarm traps work best when well clear of ground level. 6 feet, or more, is considered best. I you have access to a flat section on a house roof it is normally an excellent place to catch swarms.

Obviously this brings lifting climbing and safety issues, but even sitting on top of an old barrel is better than on a hive stand.

Also.....when a colony is scouting for a spot to go to the place they end up is often the first choice. So, when a swarm arrives, as soon as you possibly can, with 24 hours I would say, close it in and take it away to a remote apiary if you have one, and put a second bait hive on exactly the same spot.

You will often get the secondary swarm (caste or cast according to what you read in the past) as well, when you do repeat the process again.

More than one swarming colony in the area may also have selected the same prime real estate.

OK, so half of them will only catch the one swarm, but half will catch more than one.....best was five in 12 days into the same position of bait hive.

Was not near other bees, but WAS at our home base, full of nice bee smelling kit, so quite a swarm magnet.


Yes Great point Murray re height and i would like to add one other, that wherever you place your swarm trap , please don't forget the retrieval afterwards!!
I have screwed up myself but you learn quickly like that.
The swarm trap, high up on a ladder, place in an "ideal position" attracted a huge swarm. I checked the trap and absolutely nothing for most of the season. Seemingly no scout bees etc. so 6 days later, i went to check is and well, the swarm was so big it didn't fit in the box, so bees hanging off the front. It was mid june, so it didn't get dark until 10:30 CET, so i had to collect it late, very late!
There was so many bees i had to use some misted water to try and get them back off the wall and on to the landing strip.Then i used a length of soft foam, not the usual door to shut off the front entrance. This meant i could kind of Push back the huge welcoming committee, as i closed off the entrance.
But my main issue here is the change in weight. A big swarm can load up a 5 framed trap within 2 to 3 days and it just gets heavier and heavier, so please, whatever you do, be prepared to suddenly have a huge weight in your arms and position yourself on the ladder accordingly.
I go for the over the shoulder techniques. I wear my smock top, so you don't haver to worry about getting stung, much....
Then with the bees on my shoulder, and one arm supporting it, the other hand is free to hold on to the ladder. Its something you really aren't aware of until you have to get that box down, so please remember, its Darned heavy!!!
Falling off a ladder is one thing, but falling off a ladder with a heavy hive is another, the consequences when that heavy hive lands on top of you don't bear thinking about, not to mention the swarms from those Darling AMM which is the usual. Never expect them to be happy!!
 
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Some very insightful comments and suggestions, thank-you very much. I think I will stick to the old comb, height and lived in option and hope for the best. I cannot expand the size of my apiary too much as it is in my back garden so 1 swarm (probably one of mine) would be enough.
 
:iagree:

I had one swarm move into an empty hive last year and another building comb on the roof/side of the box

Must be something about the Beds/Bucks area B+ - had similar in the past. A swarm move in to a small colony and dißpatch incumbent queen; and one go in to the underside of its roof through a small gap in a snelgrove board. But never in to my bait hives! Suppose their unpredictability is what makes them so fascinating
 
If I have a trap up like that I put a small rope around the box and slowly lower it to the ground.Put the rope over a limb or around the ladder rungs and let it down slowly.
 
Falling off a ladder is one thing, but falling off a ladder with a heavy hive is another, the consequences when that heavy hive lands on top of you don't bear thinking about, not to mention the swarms from those Darling AMM which is the usual. Never expect them to be happy!!

Speaking as one who has done just that, think carefully regarding retrieval.

I find that site is important and some sites are more popular than others , light shade and facing south is best. If I put out swarm lure you can see the difference on numbers of bees attracted before and after and for me, hives with lure are more often used than those without.
Cazza
 
I'm so new I don't even have any bees - yet. Nor do I have any comb of course. There are plenty of bees around us so I was wondering about putting a nuc out with lemongrass oil on frames with foundation. It probably won't work but you never know.

We have a large south facing garden but we also have a flat area outside an upstairs window at the back of the house - ie it's at some height which I guess it a better place to attract a swarm.

The question is - if I struck lucky I would then need to move the nuc down into the garden. (I don't fancy climbing out of the bathroom window on a regular basis.) So I assume that means I would have to move the nuc over 3 miles away before then later bringing it back to the garden position?

Or is there another way to move them off the roof into the garden?

Or just put the nuc in the garden to begin with?
 

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