Combining swarm

[BeeBo]

I have a swarm in a 5 frame nuc collected on 13th May from my own hive. It has been fed with two litres of 1:1 sugar soln.
Inspected yesterday. Lots of drawn comb, not too crowded but no sign of eggs or larvae. Bees have been busily flying back with pollen whenever weather reasonable.
Is this a cast swarm and therefore still has the potential for a laying queen to develop from an unmated queen that brought the swarm?

Moving on, I have another brood box which is the result of an unsuccessful AS carried out on 2nd May. It contained a frame of brood and the original queen. Now it has about a frame of bees (maybe more as assume lots of bees were out when inspection was carried out) the original marked queen is definitely not there but there were about three small (around 15-20 larvae) groups of 3-5 day old larvae. No capped brood. Some honey stores. Couldn't find a new queen but something must be producing those larvae so assume there must be one there somewhere ?

I want to combine the bees in the nucleus with this tiny colony. Where do I go from here in terms of timing and manipulations?

 

[enrico]

You need to know if you have queens in both or either before you do anything! I would suggest you wait a while and see what happens to the larvae in one hive and the virgin in the other. If you combine with two queens you are headed for trouble!
E

 

[oliver90owner]

something must be producing those larvae so assume there must be one there somewhere ?

Please, stop assuming! It could be a queen or laying workers.

You need to check for more eggs and if found decide whether they were likely deposited by a queen or worker.

'3-5 day old' do you mean from egg or from hatching? You will shortly be able to ascertain whether drone or worker, if the latter, which may rule out laying workers.

With only a frame of bees, it is possibly not strong enough to raise brood in any quantity.

It would appear that your beekeeping activity is possibly in a bit of a mess. I think you may need a good beekeeping book and/or a mentor. Attention from a member of your local BKA might well be advised.

 

[BeeBo]

It would appear that your beekeeping activity is possibly in a bit of a mess. I think you may need a good beekeeping book and/or a mentor. Attention from a member of your local BKA might well be advised.

Do you have any suggestions re. books that may cover these issues. The books I have seem to assume everything goes according to plan. As for a mentor, I have been trying for two years without success. The influx of new beekeepers is outpacing the number of people in my local BKA who offer mentoring.

 

[alldigging]

The haynes bee manual is very easy to understand.

When you did an AS and ended up with

"Moving on, I have another brood box which is the result of an unsuccessful AS carried out on 2nd May. It contained a frame of brood and the original queen. Now it has about a frame of bees (maybe more as assume lots of bees were out when inspection was carried out) the original marked queen is definitely not there but there were about three small (around 15-20 larvae) groups of 3-5 day old larvae. No capped brood. Some honey stores. Couldn't find a new queen but something must be producing those larvae so assume there must be one there somewhere ?"

The queen should have been kept on the original spot for all the flying bees to come back to.

Where's the other bit of the A/S?



Lots of reading on http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/ub.html

 

[oliver90owner]

Afraid not. Hooper is good but you do need to search and understand the scenarios described. Even he is not 100% correct.

Most of my books, which I have read and absorbed are the older tomes, such as Wedmore. While Eva Crane appears to be very comprehensive, I must admit to not reading through it from cover to cover. I occasionally dip into it as a reference book, but not needed so often. After all, bees are simple creatures and most actions/reactions are easily predicted or explained. Mostly, it is 'intervention', or perhaps better termed as interference by the beekeeper which leads to further deviation from the normal plan.

Such as not completing the A/S manipulations. Whether it be the book not impressing on the reader or the reader not taking due note, I know not. I do know there are so many on the internet, who are basically idiots, giving out only part of the information which is then followed precisely by the unknowing, them falling into a deeper problem shortly thereafter.

Simple things like telling a 'green' beek that 'the queen stops laying three weeks before swarming' is soaked up be someone who knows nothing. But on simple analysis they would surely wonder how the bees can possibly swarm in that scenario - of no eggs for queen cell production. See what I mean? It happens far more often than you might think.

There are doubtless several good modern books out there, but also those with some really basic errors - likely a case of so many jumping on the 'honey bee bandwagon', I suppose.

What you really need to do is carefully double check any information given by some of the 'self proclaimed experts' against a couple of reliable sources and carefully analyse any deviations of advice. There are often different routes to the same result, but missing out some vital piece of information can create a fatal flaw in the plan. There should be a plausible rationale for each part of any succession of manipulations.

A/S is a typical area for this type of faux pas. There are different variations but not all are relevant all of the time. Padgen, on the other hand, is the one which will work in the vast majority of cases if followed through properly. Never totally infallible but as reliable as one can get. Tried and tested over many a year and then the mis-informers try to alter it or take short cuts.

In other words, don't believe all, or anything, you are told which cannot be substantiated.

As for your mentoring list, I am wondering how you have not managed to progress to the top of the list in two years!

RAB