Combining hives

[abbot ale]

I decided to combine my two hives due to one of them being queenless.

How long does it take for them to get through the newspaper and move down into the hive with the queen? When should I take the top BB off?

 

[enrico]

24 hours tops for the newspaper, you will have to use a bee escape to get them out of the top bb and if there is brood in it they won't move. They are more likely to move up into the top bb so consider swapping them round and taking the bottom one away in late winter. If they haven't got through the paper then spray it with a bit of sugar water.

E

 

[Softley]

You'll start to see chewed paper outside/under the hive as they work their way through. They need to unite reasonably slowly, so hopefully any perforations you put in the paper weren't hive tool sized gashes. Leave them for a week before doing anything.

How long had your queenless colony been queenless for? Hopefully they weren't laying workers?

If removing boxes, will they have enough room? Two full brood boxes of bees won't fit too well into one.

 

[enrico]

After 24 hours I always remove remaining paper to save them having to chew the disgusting stuff. One reason why I use air freshener now, done in seconds
E

 

[drex]

After 48 hours I usually remove the remains of the paper, and rearrange the frames at the same time, being careful to maintain the integrity of the brood nest. Whether one box is removed completely is a judgement call at the same time.

 

[Amari]

You'll start to see chewed paper outside/under the hive as they work their way through. They need to unite reasonably slowly, so hopefully any perforations you put in the paper weren't hive tool sized gashes. Leave them for a week before doing anything.

I don't make perforations in the newspaper and they've made plenty of their own after 24 hours

 

[Softley]

You'll start to see chewed paper outside/under the hive as they work their way through. They need to unite reasonably slowly, so hopefully any perforations you put in the paper weren't hive tool sized gashes. Leave them for a week before doing anything.

I don't make perforations in the newspaper and they've made plenty of their own after 24 hours

Nor do I, but there are lots of books that tell you to do so. If holes are too big then there's a good chance bees will meet too quickly and fight.

I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Amari]

Nor do I, but there are lots of books that tell you to do so. If holes are too big then there's a good chance bees will meet too quickly and fight.
I'm not sure what your point is.

Two points:
1: I enjoy challenging dogma repeated from one book to another e.g. the need to perforate the newspaper e.g. the need to move a hive three miles to prevent bees returning to base.
2: Of relevance to this thread: by not perforating the paper it arguably takes the bees longer to merge and thus may reduce conflict.

 

[abbot ale]

Had a quick look and they have gone through the newspaper so that seems to have worked. Still got bees in top (queenless) brood box but not that many say couple of hundred deffo no grubs. The comb in this bb is very dark even black and is mainly pollen but very dark. So do I shake bees down into lower box, remove paper and QE then feed or leave a bit longer to see if they go down themselves?
Thanks for all the advice so far

 

[Softley]

Two points:
1: I enjoy challenging dogma repeated from one book to another e.g. the need to perforate the newspaper e.g. the need to move a hive three miles to prevent bees returning to base.
2: Of relevance to this thread: by not perforating the paper it arguably takes the bees longer to merge and thus may reduce conflict.

I think you need to read the posts more carefully. The OP didn't say whether the paper was perforated or not, and I didn't say it should be. You seem to be misquoting my comments and then saying what I've already said.

It all gets a bit confusing and distracts from the OP's thread.

 

[Softley]

Had a quick look and they have gone through the newspaper so that seems to have worked. Still got bees in top (queenless) brood box but not that many say couple of hundred deffo no grubs. The comb in this bb is very dark even black and is mainly pollen but very dark. So do I shake bees down into lower box, remove paper and QE then feed or leave a bit longer to see if they go down themselves?
Thanks for all the advice so far

It's only worked properly if the colonies united without excessive fighting and losses. It sounds like your queenless colony had been queenless for some time. Why where they queenless? Were they laying workers? Had they tried to raise a new queen? Could there be a virgin in there? Has that virgin killed your other queen?

Hopefully you had most of this answered before uniting. If only a few hundred bees and no brood, shake them into the lower box. If you had a QE between the boxes, check there's not a virgin running around on top of it before doing anything else. Feed them if they need it.

 

[abbot ale]

OK thanks for that what about this dark coloured comb what has happened to make it so dark

 

[Teemore]

OK thanks for that what about this dark coloured comb what has happened to make it so dark

Use.

The remnants of old larval coccoons and the colony's use of propolis to "varnish" the insides of those cells darkens the comb.

 

[Softley]

OK thanks for that what about this dark coloured comb what has happened to make it so dark

What Teemore said.

How old is it? You might want to think about changing it.

 

[pargyle]

What Teemore said.

How old is it? You might want to think about changing it.

Not necessary to change combs unless you've had disease or wax moth in them ... total waste - the bees are the cleanest organisms on the planet - I've seen brood frames in use that are well over 10 years old and the bees are still using them. I've heard stories of much older comb as well still in use.

Another fallacy along with the propensity for hive cleaning every spring ...

 

[Softley]

Not necessary to change combs unless you've had disease or wax moth in them ... total waste - the bees are the cleanest organisms on the planet - I've seen brood frames in use that are well over 10 years old and the bees are still using them. I've heard stories of much older comb as well still in use.

Another fallacy along with the propensity for hive cleaning every spring ...

I had a quick look at the OP's other posts on this forum and it looks like he's had a few issues with weak colonies and bee losses over the last few years. Who knows if his comb is diseased, but why take the chance? It's the perfect opportunity to change it. Advice from the NBU is to change comb every few years, but what do they know. As we don't have enough info from the OP to diagnose his issues, it might be safer to change old comb - we don't know how old it is, where it came from or what state it's in.

There may be no issues with keeping bees on old comb in most cases, but it's sometimes better safe than sorry.

 

[pargyle]

I had a quick look at the OP's other posts on this forum and it looks like he's had a few issues with weak colonies and bee losses over the last few years. Who knows if his comb is diseased, but why take the chance? It's the perfect opportunity to change it. Advice from the NBU is to change comb every few years, but what do they know. As we don't have enough info from the OP to diagnose his issues, it might be safer to change old comb - we don't know how old it is, where it came from or what state it's in.

There may be no issues with keeping bees on old comb in most cases, but it's sometimes better safe than sorry.

I don't disagree with changing combs when it is necessary but too many people are under the misconception that comb that is brown is no longer of any use and NEEDS to be changed .... and as for doing ANYTHING by rote or by the timetable in beekeeping ... think then act - not because the book says you should. As for the NBU ... most of the time it gets to a date and someone presses the SEND button - not sure there's a lot of thought there either ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not necessary to change combs unless you've had disease or wax moth in them ... total waste - the bees are the cleanest organisms on the planet - I've seen brood frames in use that are well over 10 years old and the bees are still using them. I've heard stories of much older comb as well still in use.

Another fallacy along with the propensity for hive cleaning every spring ...

I don't disagree with changing combs when it is necessary but too many people are under the misconception that comb that is brown is no longer of any use and NEEDS to be changed

Don't worry - the faD on the dark side at the moment is to change ALL the comb EVERY year by the easiest and most beneficial method known:

SHOOK SWARM!!!!!​

 

[pargyle]

Don't worry - the faD on the dark side at the moment is to change ALL the comb EVERY year by the easiest and most beneficial method known:

SHOOK SWARM!!!!!​

We have NO hope ....... !!!!

 

[Softley]

We have NO hope ....... !!!!

So, you're both telling the OP not to change comb because you clearly understand his circumstances and know for sure there's no disease? Good call.

I only suggested he might want to think about it!