Combining again

[rickyd20]

One of my hives swarmed the other day, I must have left an extra QC in there that I never saw, as I thought I removed them all.
I want to combine this hive with a strong Q+ nuc I have. Can this be done when there is likely a virgin queen running around the main hive, or do I have to find and remove her first?

 

[dexter's shed]

Can this be done when there is likely a virgin queen running around the main hive, or do I have to find and remove her first?

it would make sense to remove the virgin queen wouldn't it, just in case she kills your good laying queen that you say is there

 

[rickyd20]

it would make sense to remove the virgin queen wouldn't it, just in case she kills your good laying queen that you say is there

Yea it would. I don't believe I will be able to find her though since they can be quite small and runny.

 

[dn170221]

They normally swarm when the queen cell is capped. That would give you a week or so to get in there and knock it down, at which point there would be no virgin. I have been told to shake all bees off and check each frame twice to make sure there are no missed queen cells.
If there is a chewed open QC you may have a virgin running around.

 

[rickyd20]

Ok mabee I should explain better then.
I did an AS on this when I spotted the open QCs. Then a few days after, I destroyed all but the biggest QC, or at least what I thought was the last one. Turned out there were 3 that I missed in the super, and that's how they ended up swarming, with a virgin which I managed to find when I caught the swarm.

I could reunite with the swarm but I would rather a laying queen in there.

 

[Erichalfbee]

What happened to the other two QCs?
A virgin in the hive will nobble your introduced laying queen.

 

[rickyd20]

I believe this to be a very simple question. I will try rephrase it.

Can you combine a Q+ nuc with a strong hive with a virgin queen inside and ensure the laying queen is kept.

 

[Karsal]

I was told by an old experienced beekeeper never to throw away a dispatched queen but to keep her in a queen cage in the freezer. If your struggling to find a queen in a hive put the defrosted cage on the top bars when doing your inspection. The queen in the hive will appear around the cage looking to kill the other queen.

 

[beeno]

I was told by an old experienced beekeeper never to throw away a dispatched queen but to keep her in a queen cage in the freezer. If your struggling to find a queen in a hive put the defrosted cage on the top bars when doing your inspection. The queen in the hive will appear around the cage looking to kill the other queen.

Worth a try at some point. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I believe this to be a very simple question. I will try rephrase it.

Can you combine a Q+ nuc with a strong hive with a virgin queen inside and ensure the laying queen is kept.

Yes if you remove the virgin

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I believe this to be a very simple question. I will try rephrase it.

Can you combine a Q+ nuc with a strong hive with a virgin queen inside and ensure the laying queen is kept.

In that case I will give you a very simple answer - NO! (or do you need it rephrased?)

 

[rickyd20]

In that case I will give you a very simple answer - NO! (or do you need it rephrased?)

I was actually hoping for someone who is unlikely to be wrong to answer. But thanks anyway

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So why ask the question if you don't like the answer, or think you know anyway - it's simple really, you are putting a virgin queen and a mated queen in one hive with their bees, there's going to be fighting, the virgin being more agile and fast has a good chance of winning.
So to answer your rather idiotic question another way - maybe (is that better)

 

[alanf]

I believe this to be a very simple question. I will try rephrase it.

Can you combine a Q+ nuc with a strong hive with a virgin queen inside and ensure the laying queen is kept.

No. I don't know the odds, but I'd expect a virgin queen to be better equipped to fight than an older one. She's lighter, faster and might expect to dispose of rival virgins in the normal course of events.

If you want the laying queen, find and remove the virgin. A test frame might be useful if you suspect there is no virgin. Finding queens is another topic that appears in several threads.

 

[rickyd20]

No. I don't know the odds, but I'd expect a virgin queen to be better equipped to fight than an older one. She's lighter, faster and might expect to dispose of rival virgins in the normal course of events.

If you want the laying queen, find and remove the virgin. A test frame might be useful if you suspect there is no virgin. Finding queens is another topic that appears in several threads.

Thanks for that, very helpful.
TBH I had just assumed that I probably wouldn't be able to find the virgin since it was quite a big hive with 3 supers.
I think the method that Karsal mentioned in this thread is worth trying, since I have kept all my old queens. Hopefully I can get lucky and find her.