Colony slow to build up.

[Woodland bees]

I have a colony that did well last year. It was over wintered on a double brood and had decent stores, the Q is about 1 and half. Treated like the other hives for varoa and no obvious sign of diseases I'm aware of.

This year though it hardly built up at all, just a frame or two of brood whilst other neighbouring hives are on 8+ frames.

I have deliberately left this hive to see what happens and had expected the colony to supersede. The only thing I noticed was the Q seemed very large. Can they become too fat to lay or block up at all?

She does seemed to have slimmed down a bit and has increased laying, now on about 5 frames.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Check for nosema and mite load

 

[Woodland bees]

No obvious signs of nosema and a very low mite drop (I don't fancy drowning a load of bees to do a proper mite count in a small colony).

I'm more curious about the size of the queen. Can they get overweight or block up at all? I vaguely remember someone saying they can.

 

[Erichalfbee]

No obvious signs of nosema and a very low mite drop (I don't fancy drowning a load of bees to do a proper mite count in a small colony).

I'm more curious about the size of the queen. Can they get overweight or block up at all? I vaguely remember someone saying they can.

That’s why I asked about nosema. You have to do a proper test.
Look up Randy Oliver’s Quick Squash
There aren’t any obvious signs but a fat infected queen and a dwindling colony may well be.
N ceranae has no dysentery
You don’t have to kill any bees using a sugar roll.

 

[drex]

Dysentery does not mean nosema or lack of. Dysentery may be a symptom of nosema, but not exclusively.
You have a colony failing to build. That in itself is a sign.

 

[Woodland bees]

That in itself is a sign.

Yes, but not necessarily a sign of Nosema?

I've looked into N ceranae and I will try and see if the colony has it. However, as it seems fairly common I may find signs but that may not be the main reason for the slow build up?

I've taken all the precautions I found, I've not fed sugar to this colony for over a year, don't give them fermented stores etc and I keep my equipment as hygienic as possible to avoid cross contamination. I'll not breed from this queen either.

 

[Murox]

Yes, but not necessarily a sign of Nosema?

I've looked into N ceranae and I will try and see if the colony has it. However, as it seems fairly common I may find signs but that may not be the main reason for the slow build up?

I've taken all the precautions I found, I've not fed sugar to this colony for over a year, don't give them fermented stores etc and I keep my equipment as hygienic as possible to avoid cross contamination. I'll not breed from this queen either.

What is the link between sugar and Nosema Ceranae ?

 

[Woodland bees]

What is the link between sugar and Nosema Ceranae ?

No idea, I've just started to read up on it and came across this from the NBU.

Current policy on Nosema

The current policy for Nosema is to improve effective management by all beekeepers to minimise impacts on colonies. To help beekeepers achieve this, the NBU currently provides best practice advice on managing Nosema which highlights the importance of monitoring, comb changing and sterilisation; completing autumn feeding by September/early October; and to avoid factors that promote dysentery (e.g. fermented stores, late syrup feeding, damp etc.)

https://assets.publishing.service.g...bee-health-consult-nosemaprofile-20130110.pdf

If there's any better, more recent advice, I'd be glad to see it.

 

[drex]

Dysentery will only spread Nosema if Nosema is already in the hive, with bees depositing spore ridden faeces within the hive. Nosema may cause dysentery, but so may other things .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What is the link between sugar and Nosema Ceranae ?

None - just the usual putting two and two together, making eleven then jumping to spurious conclusions.

 

[Murox]

That file seems only to indicate that "completing autumn feeding by September/early October; and to avoid factors that promote dysentery" is the remedy.
The main culprits being "fermented stores, late syrup feeding, damp etc. " .

Have you done a squash sample ? and have you checked varroa load ? as suggested previously.

 

[Hachi]

No obvious signs of nosema and a very low mite drop (I don't fancy drowning a load of bees to do a proper mite count in a small colony).

If its that small tip it out and cut your losses

 

[Woodland bees]

If its that small tip it out and cut your losses

I had assumed this wasn't a serious reply, but if it was, would that be wise. Would the bees spread any infection?

 

[Woodland bees]

Have you done a squash sample ? and have you checked varroa load ? as suggested previously.

I've tried counting the nosema but I only have a cheap microscope. I did find what looked like nosema spores but I couldn't tell if they were apis or ceranae. If pushed the ends seemed more rounded so I would say apis but not sure. I need to sort out a better 'scope at some point.

I don't have the materials to hand for the varoa tests other than the drop test. That has worked ok for me in the past and the drop is minimal.

What I have noticed is eggs on the tray. In 24 hours there's around 50, in line with the material dropped from the frames and they look like bee eggs.

I also noticed a Q cell with an egg in but no royal jelly. The cell was the same a couple of days later.

Is this likely to be a further sign of Nosema or is the Queen failing or something else?

 

[pargyle]

I don't have the materials to hand for the varoa tests other than the drop test. That has worked ok for me in the past and the drop is minimal.

All you need for a sugar roll for a varroa test is a jam jar, some icing sugar and a bit of mesh. You can manage without the mesh but it's easier if you have some.

There's plenty of tutorials about how to do it ...

Try this one ...

https://backyardbeekeeping.iamcount...release-powdered-sugar-roll-varroa-mite-test/

 

[Woodland bees]

'Tis the icing sugar we don't have. I'll pick up some when I go shopping, not been out since the lockdown started as we've not had much need. I doubt the load is high in this hive though but will do the test when I get the sugar.

It's the eggs on the varroa tray that puzzle me more.

 

[pargyle]

'Tis the icing sugar we don't have. I'll pick up some when I go shopping, not been out since the lockdown started as we've not had much need. I doubt the load is high in this hive though but will do the test when I get the sugar.

It's the eggs on the varroa tray that puzzle me more.

If you have ordinary sugar and a blender you can make your own powdered sugar ... saves a supermarket trip ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you have ordinary sugar and a blender you can make your own powdered sugar ... saves a supermarket trip ...

years ago my grandmother treated herself to a flashy new Kenwood mixer, it came with a freebie coffee grinder (handy for someone who thought real coffee was liquid and came in a bottle with a picture of a man in a skirt on the front)
To her dying day she never bought any caster sugar.

 

[Buzzlodge]

It's the eggs on the varroa tray that puzzle me more.

I had that in the past with one colony. I saw it during the winter and the colony never came right. Queen never laid properly, it dwindled and i eventually shook it out.
The floor was one I made myself, and i think the distance from the mesh to the tray was less than typical. I thought that the queen might actually have been laying through the mesh as several eggs very standing up vertically.

 

[Bear]

How do you treat nosema? Years ago I was a member of a beekeepers association. Anybody who wanted to submit samples for testing would get them tested for free. I did and the hive I thought had nosema came back positive. Next meeting the chairman told me mine had nosema and don’t worry it’s easily treated. Apart from that advice I have no idea and was never told. Any takers?!!