Cluster under the hive

[davemacdon]

I inspected my hive today (third week of ownership) and whilst I did not find the queen, did see some newly laid eggs. I closed up, not wanting to leave it open for too long, and then checked underneath, where there is a rather big cluster of bees on the underside of the varoa mesh. Is this normal? they were about 2 inches deep in the middle, tapering out towards the edges.

There are plenty of bees in the brood box and what looked like a couple of swarm cells being prepared. Brood and workers are being reared. Foraging and pollen collection is continuing and supers are filling with nectar.
The frames are positioned in the warm orientation - like that when I got them and therefore continued.

Would I be right in saying that swarm preparations are being made? The queen is a 2010 queen, marked and I was told clipped, but when I saw her last week, I was just overjoyed that I had, rather than to study her in any great detail.

Any advice on next course of action? I have minimal equipment at present, and am actively gathering ply with which to build more boxes. Will purchase if required.

Thanks in advance,

Dave.

 

[Friar Tuck]

If queen cells are being made, the clipped queen could have swarmed and is now under the OMF. But be careful the queen cells are not just play cups. Warm or cold way make no difference if you have an OMF.

I would have a look and see if the queen is under the hive.. I may even give the cluster a brush with some grass and see if they fly back into the hive...

This is just my opinion..

 

[oliver90owner]

Is this normal?

Common but not normal.

Without knowing the finer details, I wouldn't like to guess.

You may or may not be right about swarming prepartions, but if as FT says, there would almost certainly be capped queen cells.

So tell us more about your hive configuration and colony. All we know at present is the format, which way the frames run, that it has two or more supers in use and the queen is 2010.

Is there a landing board, what entrance are you using, how strong is the colony, how full is the brood box (and what with)would also be useful, as well as any other likely pertinent information, to reduce answering a question completely wrong.

RAB

 

[For want of a better word]

Quite common on OMF.... sometimes even draw comb there too!

As I prefer to have the bees inside the hive, I have removed the drawn comb and discarded it, refitted the OMF varroa board for a couple of days, and usually the bees get on with comb building where you want them to.

If a big ball of bees, check comb for eggs and queen and place it on top of the brood frames, giving space for it with an eke or super box?
Bees will move down eventually and you can remove the comb.

Bee warned tho... I am no expert!

 

[Luna]

This happened to my hive.

it helps if you give them an alighting board and also make sure the entrance block is out. I didn't have either at the time and I think the girls got fed up of queuing at the door and could smell the hive from underneath. I could see them passing food etc through the floor too.

Now that i have both an alighting board and a bigger enterance they are all in the hive fine.

 

[For want of a better word]

entrance block out definitely!

 

[davemacdon]

There is a landing board, a 3" (fixed?)entrance, one super open, the second placed on today with newspaper between 1st and 2nd. I would say a very strong colony (an un experienced assessment), a lot of bees in the brood box. Pollen still being brought in regularly. Most brood frames full with brood, nectar or honey.

I think I will inspect later today and if necessary I will brush them off gently and try and get them back indoors.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I don't know why you have newspaper between one super and another... Anyway, if you have that many bees under the hive there is a good chance that the clipped queen swarmed and as she couldn't fly she crawled under the hive and was joined by her daughters. You will need to look for queencells in the hive. If one is sealed then you have your answer. If you have open queencells (or just one) then they are preparing to swarm in any case so you need to do something other than just try to put the bees back. On the assumption that you have another hive or a nuc and some foundation, I would remove the brood box on to the upturned roof and then bang the floor down over an empty box so the bes fall off into it. You'll have to work out the best way of doing this with the stuff you have available. You have then caught the bees underneath (let's call it a swarm for now). These can be hived, if there is no queen then they will probably move back to the original hive. Put the insert under the mesh floor to discourage them from going back under.

This is a part answer - the result will depend on what you see when you inspect. Have a look-see first before you do anything. Then have a cup of tea before deciding what course of action to take.

 

[djg]

A little off-topic, but my curiosity has been aroused - why the newspaper between the 2 supers ?

 

[For want of a better word]

I" don't know why you have newspaper between one super and another."

Something for bees to read ???... FT I trust !

 

[enrico]

Bees under the OMF comes up regularly on this site. All you have to do is put some sort of a block between the base of the hive and the ground. The bees are missing the entrance, going under the hive, smelling the hive above them and then trying to get in. The mesh won't allow them to. A QExcluder works the same way but the holes are bigger but the bees don't know that. If you get a really cold night you can lose a lot of bees this way! Suggest a curtain or a wooden fron below the landing board. Will cure the problem overnight!!!
E

 

[davemacdon]

Thank you all for your comments. I will go back down to the hive and check it out again based on your input.

The reason the newspaper is between the 1st and 2nd super is because (I have read this somewhere!) that when the bees are ready to move up, they will chew through the paper and start using the super above. If not, they will focus on the lower super until ready to move on.

Due to my inexperience and the sunny then rainy then sunny weather, I have no idea when the 1st super will be full / rapidly filled and therefore am intending to leave the choice of when to move upwards to the bees.

Hope this explains, and is (as I hope) a good and recognised practice.

Dave.

Addition - Page 40 of Ron Brown's Beekeeping - a seasonal guide book suggests this method to allow the bees to decide when they are ready to move upwards.

 

[oliver90owner]

The only real scenario for newspaper is if the beek is going to be absent for some time and wishes to leave multiple supers on, for that reason.

Your super will be needed for nectar before the one in use is completed. The majority (by no means all) super above the brood box not above the super(s).

That super, if foundation, will need to be drawn before it can be put to it's intended use.

There is likely a June gap' in some area and a super is simply superfluous. The beek should be noting the gain/loss in stores on a regular basis.

So generally this practice is neither recognised nor good. The insulation property of a sheet of newspaper is not astoundingly high. It is generally a trick for absent beeks.

RAB

 

[Skyhook]

I don't know why you have newspaper between one super and another... Anyway, if you have that many bees under the hive there is a good chance that the clipped queen swarmed and as she couldn't fly she crawled under the hive and was joined by her daughters. You will need to look for queencells in the hive. If one is sealed then you have your answer. If you have open queencells (or just one) then they are preparing to swarm in any case so you need to do something other than just try to put the bees back. On the assumption that you have another hive or a nuc and some foundation, I would remove the brood box on to the upturned roof and then bang the floor down over an empty box so the bes fall off into it. You'll have to work out the best way of doing this with the stuff you have available. You have then caught the bees underneath (let's call it a swarm for now). These can be hived, if there is no queen then they will probably move back to the original hive. Put the insert under the mesh floor to discourage them from going back under.

This is a part answer - the result will depend on what you see when you inspect. Have a look-see first before you do anything. Then have a cup of tea before deciding what course of action to take.

Basically, everything I was going to say, but better put