Clipping Queens

[garysbee]

i have a tiny split that has 2 frames of bees is it to late to clip the queen

 

[Teemore]

As long as the queen is mated, it is rarely "too late" to clip a wing. IF you get it wrong and damage her, at this time of year there is plenty of opportunity to replace her with a mated and laying queen.
From Spring onwards, if I have unclipped queens, i clip them when I see them. I tend only to clip overwintered queens.

 

[Finman]

i have a tiny split that has 2 frames of bees is it to late to clip the queen

Give from another a frame of emerging bees. 2 frames of bees is too small start. It is not able to rear brood. It does not need clipping.

.

 

[B+.]

I tend only to clip overwintered queens.

Personally, I would only clip instrumentally inseminated queens. Even then, its purpose is only to prevent any attempt at natural mating until she starts laying. A temporary queen excluder over the entrance accomplishes the same thing though so, I think, its a waste of time to clip. Just my opinion though. Others may feel some comfort in knowing she's unable to go far.

 

[Teemore]

Others may feel some comfort in knowing she's unable to go far.

Its but a part of managing colonies in a way that means they will not inconvenience a neighbour.

 

[B+.]

Its but a part of managing colonies in a way that means they will not inconvenience a neighbour.

Oh, I absolutely agree that our beekeeping shouldn't impact upon our neigbours. I only meant that its better to have stock that doesn't swarm so easily.
Clipping is only a temporary delay though. If they really want to swarm, they'll do so with a virgin.

 

[For want of a better word]

Clipping can lead to an early superceedure, as B+ correctly stated they will swarm if they want to at some point and if the queen goes out the bees will return, then to swarm with the very next virgin!

My clipping shears are now in SWMBO's sewing box

I (try) to select less swarmy bees to breed from!

Yeghes da

 

[Joseph]

If you keep bees in an urban area, clipping is all but essential. I haven't lost a swarm for a few years (famous last words). I clip whenever I can, I don't recall having had a clipped queen superceded ever.

 

[garysbee]

Thanks for all the advice

 

[Poly Hive]

"Clipping can lead to an early supercedure"

Proof please.

PH

 

[ShinySideUp]

Can't do it, I just can't bring myself to mutilate a queen. From all I've heard it just allows more widely spaced hive inspections -- lazy beekeepers? I don't know.

I know I'm being irrational but it's like docking the tail on a dog or keeping goldfish in a bowl, just not something I could do to a healthy animal.

 

[oliver90owner]

Proof please.

Not proof, but clearly they would likely supercede if the operator damaged a leg, per eg! Not clipping will certainly make no difference, whereas any manipulation by the beekeeper can only increase the risk, even if small (and dependent on the experience and expertise of the beekeeper).

 

[Eyeman]

Can't do it, I just can't bring myself to mutilate a queen. From all I've heard it just allows more widely spaced hive inspections -- lazy beekeepers? I don't know.

I know I'm being irrational but it's like docking the tail on a dog or keeping goldfish in a bowl, just not something I could do to a healthy animal.

Nothing to do with 'lazy beekeepers'
Most of us have a life outside beekeeping which competes for our time.

 

[Brigsy]

I'm in a moderately urban area and have special needs people nearby so I clip to be as little nuisance as possible. If I was rural I wouldn't. Not had any supercedure issues following clipping so far.

 

[B+.]

I'm in a moderately urban area and have special needs people nearby so I clip to be as little nuisance as possible. If I was rural I wouldn't. Not had any supercedure issues following clipping so far.

I'm not trying to be funny....sometimes the bees you keep can make a big difference to the way you keep bees.
The bees I have are gentle, non-swarming, non-aggressive and hygienic. I would be happy inspecting my bees without a veil. In fact, I had a German beekeeper visit my apiary this morning. He is used to the German stock everyone is in awe of. Even he was impressed.

 

[Beefriendly]

Nothing to do with 'lazy beekeepers'
Most of us have a life outside beekeeping which competes for our time.

Agree with that....it also helps when a mistake is made such as missing a queen cell on an inspection. At least your workforce is still there (or close by underneath the hive) at your next weekly inspection.
Or is it just me that is blind and misses an occasional queen cell in a double brood hive when inspecting.

Interestingly I have heard from a couple of beekeepers who keep Italian bee that clipping their wings does cause an increase in supercedure/rejection. Not something I've ever experienced with Buckfast or Carniolan bees (so far). Perhaps the strain of bees you are clipping might make a difference?

 

[Finman]

.
Is it easier to pick the swarm from 30 m high pine top or clip the wing.

Clipping is so usual operation in beekeeping that there is no doubt about it.
But you do not need to clip, if you do not want.

Most beekeepers cannot exract honey from brood box even if sugar is as good winter food.
I extract all.
.

 

[Brigsy]

I'm not trying to be funny....sometimes the bees you keep can make a big difference to the way you keep bees.

The bees I have are gentle, non-swarming, non-aggressive and hygienic. I would be happy inspecting my bees without a veil. In fact, I had a German beekeeper visit my apiary this morning. He is used to the German stock everyone is in awe of. Even he was impressed.

Good to hear. My bees are very gentle I'm pleased to say. What counts as non swarming bees? Every other season, not at all or once a year?

 

[Beefriendly]

Every other is good IMO, with a good percentage not doing so until their third or 4th year/or getting superceded.
Annual is bad and more than once a year (Carniolans form some sources) is even worse.

 

[B+.]

Good to hear. My bees are very gentle I'm pleased to say. What counts as non swarming bees? Every other season, not at all or once a year?

The breeding values are based on the first full year after the queen was mated (i.e. from the point when all of the bees supporting her are her own progeny). The method is described here (http://coloss.org/beebook/I/queen-rearing/3/3/3).
The breeding values are a percentage of the 5-year moving average. Values above 100% perform better than the average and values below 100% perform worse. As breeders, we are only interested in queen groups (sister groups) that perform above the mean (i.e. above the 5-year moving average). The higher the figure for a particular trait (e.g. non-swarming, lack of aggression, honey yield, varroa index, etc), the better.
To establish a link that may be inherited, you have to do the statistics on a large family group, otherwise, you could be dealing with an outlier where the characteristic won't be inherited.