clear crownboards

[Rosie gill]

Hi all
Do any of you use clear crown boards? are they a good idea in winter. I would like to check on them without disturbing them as I am a newby and insecure about how they're doing, but is it less insulating than a wooden one. I have kingspan on top of the crown board.
Thanks
Rosie

 

[Luminos]

I've changed most of mine to acrylic crownboards now, with insulation on top

 

[Rosie gill]

I've changed most of mine to acrylic crownboards now, with insulation on top

Thanks

 

[Heather]

Yes they are fine in summer but I personally change to wood for winter. No need to open and look to see bees in winter. Just keep eye on fondant being demolished- that's a good indication of bee behaviour.

Winter.. if it snows, don't unblock entrance of snow. They aren't flying and extra insulation.
If a smattering of snow then put a sun shield ( piece of wood, or similar) over the entrance as the sun on snow reflects light into the hive and they come out thinking a good day, drop in the cold and die.

 

[pargyle]

Hi all
Do any of you use clear crown boards? are they a good idea in winter. I would like to check on them without disturbing them as I am a newby and insecure about how they're doing, but is it less insulating than a wooden one. I have kingspan on top of the crown board.
Thanks
Rosie

Yes ... but I use thick polycarbonate (6mm) which is more insulating than 5mm plywood and I'm now using them all year with 100mm Kingspan on top of them .. I've also sealed the edges of the crown board to the hive with aluminium tape so they are well and truly tucked up for the winter.

I buy the sheets as offcuts on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6mm-thick...ltDomain_3&hash=item27cf9b10c5#ht_1459wt_1399

They have lots of different sizes so it's as well to ask if you don't see a size that will work.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hi all
Do any of you use clear crown boards? are they a good idea in winter. I would like to check on them without disturbing them as I am a newby and insecure about how they're doing, but is it less insulating than a wooden one. I have kingspan on top of the crown board.
Thanks
Rosie

I made up my own with a beespace rim on one side and a 20mm rim on the other plus a 25mm hole in the centre for a rapid feeder when required. The hole is covered with a patch when not required and I have expanded polystyrene sheet to use with the board. The epa lifts off to look inside without chilling the hive.
It's very handy to see how the bees work without having to suit up.

 

[pargyle]

I made up my own with a beespace rim on one side and a 20mm rim on the other plus a 25mm hole in the centre for a rapid feeder when required. The hole is covered with a patch when not required and I have expanded polystyrene sheet to use with the board. The epa lifts off to look inside without chilling the hive.
It's very handy to see how the bees work without having to suit up.

I was thinking of making one that had lots of 2" holes all over the centre of it and a 6mm rim round the edge, then using this in conjunction with another solid polycarbonate one within the 6mm rim as a winter crown board ... 12mm of polycarb is good insulation (with the Kingspan as well of course).

My plan was motivated by then being able to lift the solid board out of the rim in January or whenever and slap a sheet of fondant on top of the one with lots of holes in it ... so actually not really disturbing the 'actual' crown board. The 'solid' crown board would then just sit on the top of the slab of fondant.

Didn't get round to making it this year ... perhaps next year ?

 

[itma]

Hi all
Do any of you use clear crown boards? are they a good idea in winter. I would like to check on them without disturbing them as I am a newby and insecure about how they're doing, but is it less insulating than a wooden one. I have kingspan on top of the crown board.
Thanks
Rosie

Rosie, clear plastic (polycarbonate ideally) crownboards are brilliant for beginners to do exactly as you say - check occasionally without exposing the bees to cold air.
Its good to have insulation on top.
However, even with insulation, I wouldn't advise a glass cover (sometimes called a glass 'quilt' by some beeks) because glass is such a poor insulator.


Much of the reason that beekeepers will disagree on details is because different details go together in sets to make a personal system. And people have their own sets of things that go together.
For example I now choose clear coverboards that don't have a feeder hole.
I found that the weight of a feeder caused a slight sagging in the plastic crownboard, reducing the beespace, and thus encouraging the bees to prop and wax over the coverboard - making it no longer clear! So no feeder holes in clear crownboards for me! And that goes well with my preference for supplementary fondant feeding (if needed) being given in an eke under the clear cover. I can put plenty in and I can see when it needs replacement or augmenting. And, vitally, it puts the fondant where the bees can access it most easily - right on the topbars - rather than up above a coverboard hole.
I use a different (plywood) type of crownboard for rapid feeders and use that also as a clearer board.
My choice of no-hole see-through polycarbonate crownboard for general use (including in winter) is part of my way of doing things, rather than being a simple isolated preference.



/// Really late addition -- not stated the bleedin' obvious -- if you have an open hole in a coverboard, it isn't going to do any insulating at all. So if you have a hole, it should be blocked off (even with fondant).
And yes, you will find some fresh air fiends advising open holes and a strong draught of cold air through the hive. Neither houses nor hives need that much ventilation!

 

[pargyle]

Completely agree with ITMA ... the way forward is to think about what everyone has said and then go the way that YOU think will be best for YOU ... I've been doing that for some time and you get it wrong occasionally (I'm onto my 3rd generation of crown boards for instance) but you are learning all the time. ITMA is right .. what works for one person doesn't always work for another and the only way you find out is to try it and be prepared to modify if and as necessary ! Sometimes you can combine ideas from several sources to make a system that works for you, so don't be afraid to veer away from the 'norm' occasionally ... despite what some people will tell you, there are many ways to the same goal.

 

[For want of a better word]

I have a number of WBC beehives ... all have glass crownboards... well wood framed with beespace below and 2 glass panels and a feedhole between.
I cover with at least one felt ( carpet underlay) cover all year and 5 overwinter
a ceramic tile with corresponding "plug" fits into the feedhole when not in use for winter, although I also have mesh plates that fit over , that the bees usually propolise up...

SO YES ... glass quilts or whatever are a good idea..... making up some pollycarbonate ones for the BHS pollies next year !

good luck
( and yes I still take a quick look at them to see how things are going... could not be done without a clear cover)


Should have added WBC hives have open mesh floors!

 

[Heather]

I understood that there was more condensation with glass crownboards, causing damp for the bees... is this a myth?

 

[For want of a better word]

I understood that there was more condensation with glass crownboards, causing damp for the bees... is this a myth?

Probably if not covered with an insulating quilt !

( search for matchsticks on the main forum ... and you will have hours of fun reading the odd assortment of replies!)

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I understood that there was more condensation with glass crownboards, causing damp for the bees... is this a myth?

On it's own, exposed to cold air above it, the clear panel will be a cold surface with probable condensation. However if a panel of expanded polystyrene or kingspan is placed in immediate contact above, the polycarbonate will warm up and avoid the majority of the problem.

Thin wooden boards may be cold but some condensation will soak into the wood and migrate to the upper surface where it can evaporate.

 

[itma]

I understood that there was more condensation with glass crownboards, causing damp for the bees... is this a myth?

Because glass is such a rubbish insulator, without good extra insulation, it'll get cold. And thus be the site for condensation.
Plastic is better. (You'll likely get more condensation on glass than plastic.)
But any condensation on a clear crownboard, and you'll see it clearly.
Not so with plywood, and what the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve over.

 

[drstitson]

all solid clear CBs of varying thicknesses.

all with decent top insulation (kingspan type NOT EPS)

 

[Dared]

Yes ... but I use thick polycarbonate (6mm) which is more insulating than 5mm plywood and I'm now using them all year with 100mm Kingspan on top of them .. I've also sealed the edges of the crown board to the hive with aluminium tape so they are well and truly tucked up for the winter.

I buy the sheets as offcuts on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6mm-thick...ltDomain_3&hash=item27cf9b10c5#ht_1459wt_1399

They have lots of different sizes so it's as well to ask if you don't see a size that will work.

Thanks for the link pargyle, just ordered some to make my own cover boards with enough for an observation hive next year

 

[REDWOOD]

I didn't realise so many like clear crown boards, I personally use 13mm wood crown boards on 14x12 brood boxes and find that they have enough room for a full overwinter feeding and only need to enter hive to to the acid thing Christmas time when I will estimate the weight check for any possibility of isolation starvation. I have never used insulation on hives before until this year but I'm giving it a go this year as stores got a bit low last year with the long cold winter.
Winter time is nail biting time for new beekeepers and patients is a virtue.

 

[blackie]

Hi I use 3ml glass crown boards with all my hives but it does condensate it's your choice I can't help but checking a lot

 

[pargyle]

Hi I use 3ml glass crown boards with all my hives but it does condensate it's your choice I can't help but checking a lot

Swap to 6mm polycarbonate next year - or better still, put 6mm polycarb on top of the glass now and seal it to the glass frame with tape it will hold the heat in the hive better and solve the condensation problem. Too late to be swapping crown boards IMO. You'll still be able to see them and they will stay warmer than with a glass CB.

 

[Tom Bick]

Hi I use 3ml glass crown boards with all my hives but it does condensate it's your choice I can't help but checking a lot

Glass ?? I know what I have to do with the hive tool to remove a ply crown board and doubt 3mm glass would survive. Me thinks you mean some form of plastic.