Chalk brood or something fouler 🫤

[BugsInABox]

If you recall I came into the season beeless having lost my 2 colonies though the winter.
(I’d suspected they starved I was aware I struggled to get them to feed in the autumn (it’s always hard to syrup feed in a tbh and they looked isolated from the candy I also gave )).
It was a largish swarm (to my untutored eye) and caught quite early in the swarm season -
I took it to be a prime swarm. But several weeks later no worker brood (zilch) I kept the faith but then clear laying worker signs. It was my only colony so followed the links from here and bought a mated buckfast queen from BlackMountain. They accepted her and 10 days later there was eggs and brood. But something seemed off - the pattern was pepperpotty and there were cells with uncapped white larvae - I took it to be chalkbrood and kept an eye.
Today I’m less sure. There is less evidence of chalkbrood except at the hive floor.

Something still seems off though. I’d like to think it’s the hive sorting itself out after the laying worker drones emerged; and they’ve been backfilling in a recent flow too, which I guess could be why I’m dissatisfied with a new queens pattern.
There is no unpleasant smell but …View attachment IMG_0881.jpeg

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

nothing really wrong with that pattern, yes, there is the odd cell with chalk in, but that looks old to me. Although I can't zoom in with any clarity to look at one or two cells in the first few photos.

 

[BugsInABox]

nothing really wrong with that pattern, yes, there is the odd cell with chalk in, but that looks old to me. Although I can't zoom in with any clarity to look at one or two cells in the first few photos.

What about this sort of thing?

 

[Swarm]

Yes, it's chalk brood.

 

[BugsInABox]

Phew.
So do I blame the BMH queen or give her a chance yet. It’s actually the first time I’ve bought a queen in (other then my staring package).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What about this sort of thing?

that's why I wanted clearer and zoomed in photos, the top one in the first of them is chalkbrood, but there are one or two others dotted around that I wouldn't like to advise on from a poor internet image

 

[Erichalfbee]

@BugsInABox
I appreciate that you wanted the opinion of some experienced beekeepers but JBM is right. There is no way any of us can make a proper diagnosis.
To my mind there may indeed be something that isn’t chalk. You really should give your bee inspector a ring to organise a proper look.

 

[BugsInABox]

that's why I wanted clearer and zoomed in photos, the top one in the first of them is chalkbrood, but there are one or two others dotted around that I wouldn't like to advise on from a poor internet image

Hmm not sure what to do now. I guess wait on the hive mind.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hmm not sure what to do now. I guess wait on the hive mind.

You phone your SBI

 

[BugsInABox]

You phone your SBI

I wondered.
The numbers online?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I wondered.
The numbers online?

NBU
https://www.nationalbeeunit.com/contact-us

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hmm not sure what to do now.

call your SBI - there were a few cells there which looked suspect, but without better images it's hard to tell

 

[BugsInABox]

Ok rung him.
For my interest were any of the circled areas the ones causing concern?I suppose though I hope it’s not a foulbrood I’m pretty pleased I new enough tell something seems amiss even if not enough to know what.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ok rung him.
For my interest were any of the circled areas the ones causing concern?I suppose though I hope it’s not a foulbrood I’m pretty pleased I new enough tell something seems amiss even if not enough to know what.

Let us know how you get on. Save the pictures for your SBI too.

 

[pargyle]

Ok rung him.
For my interest were any of the circled areas the ones causing concern?I suppose though I hope it’s not a foulbrood I’m pretty pleased I new enough tell something seems amiss even if not enough to know what.

Don't panic .. there are a few suspect cells - but - it's a top bar hive with an open mesh floor, it does not look like there are a lot of bees in there. Looking at your colony history at #Post 1 I wonder if part of the problem might have been a cavernous space, with too few bees, by the time you introduced a new queen (Who would be eager to get on and lay), to keep up with looking after the brood. If the colony is small - has been dominated by drones you may have had too few workers to maintain the brood that is being laid up. Top Bar Hives are not ideal for UK climates and it's not been great weather in Yorkshire this spring ..chalk brood is common in cold wet springs and what you may be seeing in those suspect cells is chilled brood that has died and there are too few bees to clear them out and they are rotting.

I hope it's not foul brood and you are doing the right thing calling in the Bee Inspector - they can test and be certain - it's not something you can be sure of looking at photos on the internet.

This leaflet is excellent from the NBU ... it should be mandatory reading for every beekeeper ...

https://www.nationalbeeunit.com/ass...isory_leaflets/Foulbrood_2017_Web_version.pdf

 

[Antipodes]

Yes, it's chalk brood.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don't panic .. there are a few suspect cells - but - it's a top bar hive with an open mesh floor, it does not look like there are a lot of bees in there. Looking at your colony history at #Post 1 I wonder if part of the problem might have been a cavernous space, with too few bees, by the time you introduced a new queen (Who would be eager to get on and lay), to keep up with looking after the brood. If the colony is small - has been dominated by drones you may have had too few workers to maintain the brood that is being laid up. Top Bar Hives are not ideal for UK climates and it's not been great weather in Yorkshire this spring ..chalk brood is common in cold wet springs and what you may be seeing in those suspect cells is chilled brood that has died and there are too few bees to clear them out and they are rotting.

I hope it's not foul brood and you are doing the right thing calling in the Bee Inspector - they can test and be certain - it's not something you can be sure of looking at photos on the internet.

This leaflet is excellent from the NBU ... it should be mandatory reading for every beekeeper ...

https://www.nationalbeeunit.com/ass...isory_leaflets/Foulbrood_2017_Web_version.pdf

Having a lateral flow in your beekeeping bag is a good idea too

 

[Erichalfbee]

It may well be but advising a beginner to contact his SBI is by far the safest diagnosis to make

 

[Antipodes]

Ok rung him.
For my interest were any of the circled areas the ones causing concern?

I tried to answer this question before- sorry BugsinABox but it may have been taken the wrong way. I can see it hasn't been answered yet.
No, not causing concern for me. Your colony has chalkbrood and I am in no doubt about that. The foulbrood diseases of EFB and AFB do not cause blackened mummified larvae to fall out of the cells and accumulate on the bottom of the hive. Other photos, most of which are very good, clearly show the clinical signs of chalkbrood. Larvae don't immediately go from healthy looking to shrivelled/ fungus white (then blackened) of course, so there is some confusion evident as some of your photos show larvae that are in that transitional stage.
I hope all goes well with the SBI and that they find no other brood disease present with their inspection and lateral flow test/s. Good work and good to get them in.