Cement Foundation press?

[flemage]

Hi All

I was down in cornwall last year camping with kids and came across Bee farm / visitors center on the north coast. Well i had to have a look around brought some foundation as i have never seen it in a shop before, had a chat with people there (very nice) and took kids upstairs to the attraction place. There I found an old cement foundation press. Didnt realy think to ask about it at the time.

As i have started to make increases the cost of foundation seems to be getting out of hand and the silicon sheets or the mangle sold by some companys seem massivly expensive. And i was thinking if there was a way of making or buying a cement press.

Looked fairly simple two 'pavement' sized slabs embosed with foundation shapes with metal frame and handle. I would imagine it works by pouring in liquid wax wait a bit to cool then bring down top slab.

Does any one know any thing about these?

 

[oliver90owner]

Make your own press.

Use a sheet of founation as the bottom of a casting mould. Spray with silicone as a release agent (or eventually scrap the foundation). Fill mould with cement paste and allow to harden. Turn over, fit the other half of the mould in position over the foundation and repeat the exercise. Remove the foundation sheet and job is a good 'un.

If not thick enough when cast simply space the two halves with an appropriate strip between the two halves of the mould. Might even be able to cast in wire if clever enough.

Melted wax does not need a huge weight. Maybe the one you saw used a thinly extruded (rolled ) sheet of wax and simply the weight imprinted the sheet.

RAB

 

[RoofTops]

I used a silicon mould for a while. My experience was making cast foundation sheets is slow and the sheets you make are very brittle compared to rolled foundation. The sheets were also much thicker.

And of course it does not have wires in it - which was not a problem for me as I used wired frames but worth bearing in mind.

 

[flemage]

Thanks for that sounds pretty doable. I feel a weekend project coming on!

 

[MuswellMetro]

Thanks for that sounds pretty doable. I feel a weekend project coming on!

i would have thought the cement paste would need reinforcing with something like chop strand or sheet fibre glass

I would also make as large a sheet of foundation as possible, so perhaps use a 16x10 sheet and cut the result to size required because to get good even cells then the edges are problem areas using a mold

i've seen it done with food grade silicon on a super size sheet and worked on a small scale

As i used to biult K2 canoes, i might get around to make a mold in resin and fibre glass one day

 

[Poly Hive]

If you "wait a bit" you will have a solid sheet blank on one side.

I saw a demo some years ago. And the method was to use a foundation sheet, as big as you like and bigger than you use preferably, and I seem to recal that silicone was used to make the mould and then warmed in an oven to lose the wax, so lost wax process method.

I had the use of an aluminium one for some years and it is pretty fast if you have a LOT of wax to hand.

You need moulds to cut round for your sizes, I had Lang sup and brood, Nat sup and brood and another I can'tnow remember. A pizza cutter is a very useful tool for the cutting.

Yes they are brittle to a point, as another poster said no bother to me as I was wiring anyway. The thickness was immaterial as the bees use the excess to pull comb, and the midrib stays the same thickness as far as I could tell.

Great fun and a brilliant way to use up your wax. One tip though is to use lots of washing up liquid water in the mould as release agent before you cast the next sheet, and keep a hot kettle of water to clean out stuck sheets as life has a habit of interrupting...

PH

 

[DanBee]

I had the use of an aluminium one for some years and it is pretty fast if you have a LOT of wax to hand.

I have one in the shed. Called a Herzog Press, although Googling for that seems to bring up only images of roller presses rather than the 'two slab' device described. Not sure if it's aluminium as it's a heavy beast but it's buried behind stuff at the moment.

 

[Poly Hive]

Might you hang on to it for me please?

PH

 

[DanBee]

Don't worry, PH - I don't get rid of much!

 

[Tom Bick]

Hi All

I was down in cornwall last year camping with kids and came across Bee farm / visitors center on the north coast. Well i had to have a look around brought some foundation as i have never seen it in a shop before, had a chat with people there (very nice) and took kids upstairs to the attraction place. There I found an old cement foundation press. Didnt realy think to ask about it at the time.

As i have started to make increases the cost of foundation seems to be getting out of hand and the silicon sheets or the mangle sold by some companys seem massivly expensive. And i was thinking if there was a way of making or buying a cement press.

Looked fairly simple two 'pavement' sized slabs embosed with foundation shapes with metal frame and handle. I would imagine it works by pouring in liquid wax wait a bit to cool then bring down top slab.

Does any one know any thing about these?[/QUOTE]

No sorry but if you want to save money you can always try no foundation other than a starter strip?
Not for everyone but interesting all the same

 

[beebreeder]

I think there would be a market for a foundation press of some sort again now as many people are concerned about residues in purchased foundation, cost being the prohibitive factor and a ready supply of a surprisingly large amount of wax

 

[hedgerow pete]

concrete is one way i personally do the fibreglass sheets and a mangle way my self, its far easier and simpler and produces a better sheet ,

what i usually do is make a weekend day of it start in the morning and keep going all day and the finish up with the big clean down in the afternoon. i have all my frames wired any way so plain wax is no real issue to me

 

[Into the lions den]

Make your own press.

Use a sheet of founation as the bottom of a casting mould. RAB

Whilst personally I cannot begin to conceive the making of my own foundation being a worthwhile exercise (economically that is, as I get my own wax milled by a UK maker and it works out at something like 12p a BS deep sheet, plus the value of the wax and the two way carriage) I do appreciate that many on here are actually deriving a lot of satisfaction from the DIY aspect of beekeeping. Nothing wrong with that.

However, if using a bought sheet of foundation as a template for your own mould, best to seek out a CAST make (not home made) for your template. A make such as Dadant from the US is perfect. The reason for this is that the cell dimensions are always precise, whereas rolled foundation is not always so due to stretching and distortions that take place during the making.

No doubt some makers do it perfectly well rolled, but others turn out a product that is less consistent. I have recently come across an incident where a dispute currently exists between a UK beekeeper and a UK foundation maker regarding cell size and shape, where the cells are correct sized one way but well oversize the other.

Should anyone want to check their rolled sheets for perfect dimensions prior to making a mould from it you have to measue the cell size. On single cells this is just too fiddly, so you do it per 10 cells. You measure from flat side to flat side, 10 cells at a time, all three planes you can do this in, each a 60degree rotation from the one before. If all three measurements are exactly the same (which according to maker and spec can be in a range centred upon approx 53.0mm) then you most likely have an undistorted sheet accurately reflecting the cell size on the makers embossing roller, and so long as you are happy with that then go ahead and make your mould from it.

 

[flemage]

Thanks all for the advise!

didnt manage to get around to it this wekend as wife had other plans and so did my bees! opened up loads of sealed queen cells

But found the queen and A/S ed for all i was worth, went from double brood to three single brood.

Perhaps i will get a chance to have a go at foundation press next weekend.

I will post the results when and if it works.

Thanks

 

[newportbuzz]

has anyone tried injection wax casting of the sheets?

For jewelery work we use a wax injector which is basicly a bucket of wax with a nozzle on it under pressure. It fills the most delicate of features.
The mold while big would be easy to make and clamping it shut should avoid any distortions.


btw we use talc as a releasing agent. put some in a shammy leather and dap it on the mold.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I have recently come across an incident where a dispute currently exists between a UK beekeeper and a UK foundation maker regarding cell size and shape, where the cells are correct sized one way but well oversize the other.

Thats interesting.

And is the problem that the bees are consistently drawing the foundation out into drone cells in certain areas of the foundation sheets by any chance?

 

[For want of a better word]

John Vivian Keeping Bees Williamson Publishing 1986 has a chapter devoted to foundation presses and foundation making for DIY
American book with interesting chapters.. I particularly like the bee lineing........