Captured swarm in box

[todski]

Hi,

We had a swarm delivered two days ago. We put a honey feeder into a National style hive, took out some of the frames with a solid divider frame to keep the area of frames small for the new colony. Then we put the bees in just before dark.

The next day they were busy flying around and started to make a clump under one of the legs of the hive. The clump has since moved inside the box with a smaller clump under the lid. The bees are however, very lethargic, not trying to fly and there are quite a lot of bees just lying on the landing pad looking pretty sad.

I want to ask the forum for some thoughts as to why they might be so lethargic.?

I want to include what details I can:

They have enough honey in the feeder.
It is damp and cold here but there are plenty of flowers out at the minute.
The swarm arrived quite small, I would say less than a kilo of bees.
After they went in they were very active. Suddenly about 4pm the day after they went in they became really lethargic and have stayed that way.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Will

 

[Queens59]

Perhaps sulking if queenless? Other swarms are very quiet for a few days after hiving esp. if they need to make was for foundation. They will eat lots of honey and then sit and wait for the wax plates to start working. This may look like lethargy...esp. if as you say it is cold and damp outside.

 

[oliver90owner]

First. This honey you have fed them, is it from your other hive (if you have another)?

If it is bought-in honey you may already have infected your bees with some very nasty disease pathogens.

The weather may well be the problem regarding their activity (the damp and cold bit). Keeping warm may well be their priority.

 

[todski]

Hurm, hope not. The swarm was delivered in a box which was tightly sealed. When we opened the box to put them in the hive they were all sleeping (or at least really quiet) as they were in the box most of the day. They all went into the hive in one go and we got the lid on tightly without any coming out. If there was a queen in the swarm when it was captured, it definitely went into the box.

Still, if there is no queen, there is nothing we can do right? I understand the workers can lay if there is no queen. Are they capable of bringing on a new queen themselves?

 

[todski]

The honey we fed them is shop bought. We dont have another hive, this is our first! We assumed honey from a shop would be better for them than sugar. It has been cold and damp for some days. Also, we are about 300m in altitude (although very sheltered) and the swarm was captured in Edinburgh (at sea level) in someone's garden.

 

[jackbee]

I understand the workers can lay if there is no queen. Are they capable of bringing on a new queen themselves?

Only if the egg is fertilised - which means layed by a mated queen. Laying workers can only produce unfertilised eggs - which means drones

 

[jackbee]

The honey we fed them is shop bought. We dont have another hive, this is our first! We assumed honey from a shop would be better for them than sugar.

Only ever feed them back their own honey, never from another hive and especially not shop bought, is what I have been told. Take it out and replace with sugar syrup if you have to feed

 

[Shabro]

as far as I'm made aware, honey bought from the shop is usually foreign - from china, us etc and more than likely has spores / pathogens contained within that are perfectly alright for human consumption but can infect your bees with brood diseases etc.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My grandfather always hammered into me that foreign honey was to blame for most of the bees problems and never to feed it to the bees - take it off and put 1:1 sugar on if you think they need it

 

[drex]

It's early days. You only hived them two days ago. I assume you only had foundation to put them on. You have supplied food - even if it was the wrong sort. Never feed honey unless from your own, disease free bees. Feed them sugar syrup ( 1 Kg in 1 L).

At the moment their priority will be to build cells, so you may see little activity - heavily dependent on weather.

Do you know how long they had been in the box before you got them?

Keep the feed topped up, otherwise, nothing else you can do except leave them alone for a week, when the picture may be clearer.

Suggest you get a good book and join your local association, or get in touch with an expereienced beekeeper

 

[todski]

Thanks for all the advice!.

Really gutted about having given them dodgy food.

@Drex, the swarm was captured that morning by beekeepers on emergency call out in Edinburgh. We have a book - the peoples hive by Warre - but it is rather ambiguous. Can you recommend any easy to follow books?

 

[drex]

I am confused. You say you put them in a national style hive but are reading Warres book. It is a good book for general background or if you intend on using Warre hives ( I run mainly Nationals but do have a Warre), but would have been of little use to me when I started .

For me the best is Ted Hooper - Bees and Honey, but you will find many recommendations about book on here if you use the search facility

 

[todski]

Thanks for the recommendation. About the confusion, we are building a warre hive but it isn't finished. We got the call about the bees unexpectedly and had to put them in a national hive that was ready. Sorry, new to beekeeping and have taken a course recently. Taken out the honey..

 

[oliver90owner]

Read up on AFB, and if you even if you only slightly suspect any of the signs as your colony develops, call in the bee inspector (tell them your story and they will be understanding). Better early diagnosis than later.

Do not transfer them to the Warre system, is my advice - certainly not for the next 'quite a while'!

If you look up AFB 'hot spots' for outbreaks in the past, some of the repeated high risk areas have been centred around honey importers/processors.

 

[clv101]

If imported honey is likely to contain AFB, does it follow that the majority of overseas commercial hives have AFB? Or is it that just one 'bad hive' can contaminate the honey of 100s then it's all blended together?

 

[oliver90owner]

does it follow that the majority of overseas commercial hives have AFB?

NO, well not necessarily. To be honest I don't know, but does it really matter?

 

[drex]

Getting a bit off the point, but when it comes to populating your Warre, go for a swarm straight into it. I populated my KTBH using chop and crop from a national and it was messy ( but did work eventually) . Swarm straight into Warre and off it went, building nice straight comb at full speed

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hi todski,

The gals and guys make some good points - and, yes, it was a bit of a booboo!


Nonetheless, we all do daft things, especially in the early days.

But it's a great craft, fascinating, worrying, intriguing and mystifying in equal measure.

As advised, get some help, join an association and, presuming you got away with it - enjoy yourself!

Dusty

 

[MandF]

Out of interest what course did you do?

NO criticism of you guys, but it seems to have some fairly fundamental gaps if it is for beginner beekeepers.

Don't beat yourself up about the honey feed - you cannot do any more now you have taken it off (what was the 'brand' of honey by the way), but the golden rule is to only feed your bees their own honey back, or sugar syrup, or if you know your hives were healthy it is ok to feed honey from another of your hives as a last resort. The reason being feeding contaminated honey is the best way of spreading disease.

I would second the Ted Hooper recommendation, and you should definitely read through all the book when you can - it is ok as a reference book, dipping into sections as and when you need it, but as your course had gaps the book should fill those in.

Welcome to beekeeping, and remember beekeeping is primarily about opinions - so when you ask advice on here, generally you will get several suggestions or answers, you can then evaluate everything and make your own decision.

Good luck

 

[MuswellMetro]

Read up on AFB, and if you even if you only slightly suspect any of the signs as your colony develops, call in the bee inspector (tell them your story and they will be understanding). Better early diagnosis than later.

Do not transfer them to the Warre system, is my advice - certainly not for the next 'quite a while'!

If you look up AFB 'hot spots' for outbreaks in the past, some of the repeated high risk areas have been centred around honey importers/processors.

Totally agree with RAB..........i would also add, first learn to be a beekeeper using a system that other beekeepers around you know and can help you

when you are a competent beekeeper then that is the time you can experiment

The warre system is becoming more promoted by the green movement but i worry from what i know about warre hives that i doubt the current hybrid smarmy bees are suitable for the warre system especially in towns

i have friends with bees on a london roof, their langstroth hive works perfectly but their warre hive is swarming so much they have shut it down and shook swarmed the colony into another langstroth