Can Queen Bees Swarm in Their First Season

[Benodale]

I'm very confused as two of my hives seem to have swarmed even though they have new queens which were raised this year and I'm wondering if this is normal?

To put you in the picture I completed artificial swarms early in the season (local oil seed rape seems to have made everything happen early this year). This was more or less succesful and ended up with two hives with new laying queens and one hive with an original queen. Stupidly I didn't remove the old queen cells so I didn't spot what was coming, but on Sunday (just as I was about to sit down for lunch) my neighbour reported a large swarm in his apple tree. I collected and hived this and duly went through my hives to determine where it had come from. To my surprise neither of the new queens were present (capped queen cells were) and the old queen was going about her business quite happily. I'm guessing that my new queens have swarmed (and I've lost one), but why? I thought age and overcrowding were the most important factors. The other unusual thing was that all of the queen cells were supersedure type i.e. built out from the worker cells not at base of the combs even though eggs were present so they weren't emergency cells (this might not be of any consequence, but it just seemed strange).

I have been meaning to requeen as my bees are very swarmy (having been collected as swarms originally), but I'll admit that loosing queens in their first season has surprised me. Can anyone give me any advice on this?

Thanks

 

[Ben90]

Unquestionably YES.

Telling beginners that colonies/queens don't swarm in their first season has to be possibly the most irresponsible advice routinely dished out as received wisdom to beginner beekeepers.

 

[enrico]

Reproduction is all important to them, swarming is their way of reproducing, if they think they are strong enough to pull it off they will go for it and a long season like this one will mean you are not the only one!
E

 

[YorkshireBees]

I'm very confused as two of my hives seem to have swarmed even though they have new queens which were raised this year and I'm wondering if this is normal?

To put you in the picture I completed artificial swarms early in the season (local oil seed rape seems to have made everything happen early this year). This was more or less succesful and ended up with two hives with new laying queens and one hive with an original queen. Stupidly I didn't remove the old queen cells so I didn't spot what was coming, but on Sunday (just as I was about to sit down for lunch) my neighbour reported a large swarm in his apple tree. I collected and hived this and duly went through my hives to determine where it had come from. To my surprise neither of the new queens were present (capped queen cells were) and the old queen was going about her business quite happily. I'm guessing that my new queens have swarmed (and I've lost one), but why? I thought age and overcrowding were the most important factors. The other unusual thing was that all of the queen cells were supersedure type i.e. built out from the worker cells not at base of the combs even though eggs were present so they weren't emergency cells (this might not be of any consequence, but it just seemed strange).

I have been meaning to requeen as my bees are very swarmy (having been collected as swarms originally), but I'll admit that loosing queens in their first season has surprised me. Can anyone give me any advice on this?

Thanks

As Ben said and the clue is in your own text!

I have had new Nuc's swarm when there is enough bees and too many QC's were left!

 

[Dave /Oscroft]

swarming

Hi,
yes most definitely, I had some carnies 4 years ago and they swarmed out within six weeks ! and continued to do so, I caught most of the swarms but even they swarmed out. All mine are mongrels now and are much better especially this year, but its all down to inspections every seven days and taking action as needed. Unfortunately lifes not so straight forward as that work and family get in the picture also ! and HWMBO !

good luck

Dave

 

[Benodale]

Thanks everyone

Thanks for your advice everyone. I'll be ready next time. It's funny how you think you are just getting the hang of this beekeeping thing and then you learn something completely new!

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Yes: lots of discussion on here; it seems to be worse this year. Check out my post a couple of posts ago. http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=420799#post420799

 

[Davelin]

The most ridicule I have ever had on here is when I posted 'A new queen would be unlikely to swarm in her first year'.


You live and learn.

 

[BeeJayBee]

You live and learn.

Sadly, so do a lot of new beekeepers who do as they're told and buy both Carniolans and a standard national hive. They lose their nice new queens in the first season.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Yes: lots of discussion on here; it seems to be worse this year. Check out my post a couple of posts ago. http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=420799#post420799

The other half of the split I referred to in that post was a weak nuc with a QC made after a 19 May swarm. Today I had to split after finding QCs with 4-day grubs in. She's doomed of course but she damn near made it off in under a month.