Can laying workers fly?

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Tomo

House Bee
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May be controversial...or not. I have read in various books that workers cannot fly once they have become egg layers. I have also read on this forum that this is wrong and they can fly. Has there been a scientific paper or study? Thanks.
Just means I won't have to walk so far in the future if they can fly!
 
As JBM.

Can queens fly? They are egg layers, aren't they?

Give us a list of any books that state they cannot fly and everyone can cross them off the their list of useful beekeeping books.

There is a subtle difference between can and do. I would imagine that you need to read more carefully and not misinterpret the author as meaning something other than they have actually written.
 
May be controversial...or not. I have read in various books that workers cannot fly once they have become egg layers. I have also read on this forum that this is wrong and they can fly. Has there been a scientific paper or study? Thanks.
Just means I won't have to walk so far in the future if they can fly!

Does their wings fall off once they start popping out eggs, there'll you'll find the answer to your question.
 
May be controversial...or not. I have read in various books that workers cannot fly once they have become egg layers. I have also read on this forum that this is wrong and they can fly. Has there been a scientific paper or study? Thanks.
Just means I won't have to walk so far in the future if they can fly!
Were you thinking of ants? They lose the wings after mating.
 
RAB so quick to put people down! From Bees at the bottom of the garden by Alan Campion, page 87 para 2 Quote; "The laying workers cannot be identified from other workers by inspection, but they are different in that they have lost the ability to fly." As you can see I have not misunderstood the context, it is quite clear. As per my original post I am interested in real evidence not conjecture.
 
RAB so quick to put people down! From Bees at the bottom of the garden by Alan Campion, page 87 para 2 Quote; "The laying workers cannot be identified from other workers by inspection, but they are different in that they have lost the ability to fly." As you can see I have not misunderstood the context, it is quite clear. As per my original post I am interested in real evidence not conjecture.

It's a very basic beekeeping book and there are some flaws in it .. It's an easy read for a new beekeeper but don't take everything in it as gospel. He's wrong about this ...
 
I think Alan Campion probably meant lost the ability to forage even today we called those that forage flyers and the ones that "don't" fly nurse bees even though they can when they need to.
 
RAB so quick to put people down! From Bees at the bottom of the garden by Alan Campion, page 87 para 2 Quote; "The laying workers cannot be identified from other workers by inspection, but they are different in that they have lost the ability to fly." As you can see I have not misunderstood the context, it is quite clear. As per my original post I am interested in real evidence not conjecture.

So thats a book NOT to use as reference then? :ohthedrama:
 
RAB so quick to put people down

Not at all. Only if the cap fits. Your reading skills are clearly a bit lacking as you completely missed the previous sentence I wrote. One book is not exactly a list, but it is a start, I suppose.

I don't know the full context of that section in the book, but if that is exactly what it means, then it is clearly incorrect. And if so, new beeks learn this carp from carp writers of carp books? Makes me wonder what else these so called 'experts' teach the unsuspecting. That shallow brood boxes are ''supers''? That queens ''hatch'' twice - once from the egg and again from the pupal stage? That shallow boxes are still ''supers'' when clearly they are not (when placed UNDER)?

That book should not be on the list of suggested reading for new beeks, if it states things like that. What it should have made clear is that laying workers no longer fly - as in foraging. Exactly like queen - she no longer flies once mating flights are over. But clearly she can still fly (swarming or from a beeks fingers at a clumsy moment?). Perhaps these authors think their errors, mistakes, lies, etc will not be noticed because the books only appeal to those that don't know any better. Poor state of affairs if there are lots of these carp books out there.

As they say 'one swallow does not make a summer', so lets be having the rest of this long list of carp books. Back to you, as I don't read these seemingly carp bee books - I rely on the proper authors, who wrote proper sentences and meant exactly what they said. Perhaps not all completely correct in every aspect, but the modern book authors have seemingly not learned a lot from these old tomes. Umpteen decades on and they can't get right what beeks knew to be true a century ago, or even more.
 
RAB so quick to put people down
Perhaps these authors think their errors, mistakes, lies, etc will not be noticed because the books only appeal to those that don't know any better. Poor state of affairs if there are lots of these carp books out there. .

Easy money to be made from those who prefer reading to the more practical side of getting hands-on and making a mistake or three !?
 
I think it is an "old beekeepers' belief" that they cannot fly. Disproved by scientific investigation, however that can be very slow to change "old beekeepers' beliefs".
// I am going to leave it abiguous as to whether I am referring to old beekeepers or old beliefs ...


Note that even in a 'perfectly normal' Q+ colony there are a few percent of the workers laying eggs. However these eggs are only very rarely allowed to come to fruition. For more info on that subject, Google worker policing.
 
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As far as I know, no one has reseached, do laying workers fly. At least I have not seen such reseach.

Laying workers are identyfied by surgering the bee, how much their ovaries are swollen and how ready eggs you can see inside a hive. After surgering the bee cannot fly.

is the bee full of honey, or has it swollen ovaries, it cannot identyfied outside. At least researchers open number of bees and look how many percent of opened have swollen ovaries. Otherwise it would be easy to shake bees down, and look, how many stays in site in evening.

Another point is that laying workers develope in the hives which are desparately queenless. In theory, even if you take all laying workers off, next day they can be again 200 new laying workers in the hive.

Laying workers may be even thousands.

University of Seffield revieled secret of laying worker about 15 years ago.

Romania has know this 150 years, but has not told to anybody, because it was a secret ( according scutellator)

Despite of what Sheffield has dove, beekeepers do not give up from their eternal fairytales. They are more interesting than real facts.
 
It's a very basic beekeeping book and there are some flaws in it .. It's an easy read for a new beekeeper but don't take everything in it as gospel. He's wrong about this ...

Perhaps this book shouldnt be recommended to new beekeepers then like it always is, even by experienced beeks! So one badly worded sentence & the author is condemned as are people on here for a post they may have worded wrongly. Grow up people, maybe the author was making it easy for the reader to understand in that a LW wont get back into the hive?
Oliver 90 can you post your evidence that they can fly, and where you got this evidence? Maybe they are like the Queen in that to fly any distance they need to slim down a little, maybe he was meaning they cant fly for this reason as in not far enough to get back to a hive from a distance.
 
Perhaps this book shouldnt be recommended to new beekeepers then like it always is, even by experienced beeks! So one badly worded sentence & the author is condemned as are people on here for a post they may have worded wrongly. Grow up people, maybe the author was making it easy for the reader to understand in that a LW wont get back into the hive?
Oliver 90 can you post your evidence that they can fly, and where you got this evidence? Maybe they are like the Queen in that to fly any distance they need to slim down a little, maybe he was meaning they cant fly for this reason as in not far enough to get back to a hive from a distance.

Jonny. Your are repeating that old fairy tales. Can't you understand that worker layers fly. What is so difficult?

We do know the new facts but we cannot give up from old story.

And do not say anything any more about experienced beekeepers.

.book writers does not know all. Not at least beekeeping book writers.

Keep learning curve high!

What about away learning curve.... Sloping

.
 
maybe the author was making it easy for the reader to understand in that a LW wont get back into the hive?
Which would still be a load of b*llox. If a simple little fact that laying workers cannot fly has been incorrectly stated what other inaccuracies are there.
If you shake out a hive with laying workers and put a new unoccupied hive back in the same location as the original - bees capable of flying will get back in there and a week later - you will have evidence of laying workers.
If you don't leave a hive in the original location the bees (including the laying workers) will beg their way back into the other hives but the strong queen pheremones in the host hive will supress the laying instincts of the workers; any eggs that are laid by workers will be tidied awaqy by the nurse bees.
You can talk as much nonsense as you like JBG the author made a dangerously misleading statement. Period.
 
Finman,

I agree it really is an utter 'no brainer'. Yet there are still some who cannot even understand the simplest of beekeeping facts. You know they can fly, I know they can fly, lots of others know they can fly. Yet there ars a few that cannot use a brain, even if they tried! There is no chance of educating that category and it is made worse when supposedly helpful books are known to be littered with errors.

Some would want research on whether the queen really lays eggs. They are that short sighted and helpless!

Even Hooper gets it wrong in a couple of places. But I still await this supposed list of various books that all have it wrong. In fact it may make one think that some authors don't really know, and just reguritate trash from previous 'don't knowers' to pass on to the 'don't thinkers'! More than one on just this thread!

RAB
 
Jonny. Your are repeating that old fairy tales. Can't you understand that worker layers fly. What is so difficult?

We do know the new facts but we cannot give up from old story.

And do not say anything any more about experienced beekeepers.

.book writers does not know all. Not at least beekeeping book writers.

Keep learning curve high!

What about away learning curve.... Sloping

.

I haven't said I don't think they can fly? I am just trying to understand & perhaps give a reason why the author may have wrote that. I don't have enough experience to state whether LW's can fly or not, I just find it odd that in such a popular book for beginners that he has it wrong, why weren't beekeepers up in arms about it & questioned it so when the book was republished which it has been several times it could have had this altered maybe? why is this book being recommended to newbies every time theres a thread about which books to buy, maybe that is because it is an easy book to pick up starting off, which should of course be read along side other books, not just used on its own. It doesn't seem fair to say it should not be a book to buy. & for experienced beeks to ridicule "new" books when they haven't even read them says it all!
 
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But follow this forum. When next laying worker Queen appears to this forum, guys are offering recipe: carry the hive 100 yards and shake, shake.

Lets take a bet . Next case will be inside one week.

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