Calling 1st Year new bees

[psafloyd]

For you experienced hands - thank you for your input but what I wanted was reactions from New Bees. I have done the research and read the forum so I know what an experienced beekeeper is likely to say. I'm reading the books and waiting for the course.

No body has actually answered my questions apart from Snail368.
Do I go for budget or build yourown hive? I cannot afford to replace all the kit next year when I find out I've bought the wrong sizes etc. National Brood Box or 14x12? As a new bee what did you go for and was it the right decision?

You are unlikely to get a definitive answer. Most people use nationals, some use 14 x 12 and others use poly. There are other options, too. What suits you will probably depend on a) the bees you have, b) how you keep them c) your environment and climate and d) whatever the bees choose to do.

 

[itma]

... Your hive type depends - probably - on your local "common type"; sensibly on type of bee kept (colony size); your physical strength; your budget. No-one on a forum can best guess any of this, hence my original post .

Its a compromise.
Yours won't be the same as everyone (or maybe anyone) else's.

Ask people WHY they use/recommend what they do. Then consider how significant those factors are likely to be to you.

I was steered to standard National before I fully understood that its too small for many bee colonies - and so has to be used with multi-brood boxes (which I also now know that I really don't like, but some love), or else its a swarm-generator.
But it ain't hard or disastrous to change to 14x12. Under £30 to buy an eke. Under £20 for 10 frames and the same for foundation {why do they sell them in 10's when a hive takes 11 ... ! I got 50 seconds in the annual sales.)

Staying standard makes it easy to get help, nucs, and even to unload if you choose to. The market for non-standard top-beespace Nationals is much thinner than the market for standard ones.

Get a decent all-in-one suit from a vendor who will change it if it turns out not to fit your shape.
I mostly use a £5 'observer smock' with my laid-back bees, but always the full suit for visiting others!
There's something wrong if you need thick gloves for working a hive.
Get a big smoker - it'll use more fuel, but stay alight more easily for longer.
Unless you enjoy woodwork, I'd suggest you consider a poly foam hive. Cheap and good for the bees if not aesthetics! A Pains 14x12 BB in poly is cheaper than buying a cedar conversion eke ... its that much cheaper.
If you like woodwork, buy a flatpack hive and replicate it, so you can properly understand, really 'grok', it.
Or else go and see a Top Bar Hive. It might rock your particular boat, but it'll likely be barely mentioned on your course.

Don't buy honey processing kit (if your association and friends can help), until you know how serious you are.
But don't skimp on the details. A framed queen excluder will make things more pleasant and a see-through crownboard should be on every newb's shopping list. And different bees and beeks seem to have different feeder preferences, you'll soon have a few!

But do expect to discover what you like and dislike as you go along. You can't know for certain in advance.
Its not a tattoo - you can alter your choices later on! Though most beekeepers only seem prepared to part with things if they are utterly dreadful. Misc bits might be useful for a bait hive, a swarm, an artificial swarm, emergencies, whatever. Fact is, as you go along you'll discover you do need some spare kit. And things can be creatively repurposed.

 

[alanf]

Let you into a secret. I bought a couple of flat pack supers at the Convention. Made a total b*llocks making one up! Totally ashamed. It's hidden in the recesses of the garage till I can use it for firewood.

Firewood? Have a go at making an eke or a floor out of the bits. Or at least a couple of entrance blocks - you never know when a single bee entrance block might be useful.

 

[alanf]

when I said build your own hive I was talking about buying different 'bits' via Mr Th as opposed to buying one of their kits. Therefore I could have 14x12 BB and sn5 frames in the suppers, choose which QE etc etc. Although I run a craft business I'll let the experts do the woodwork on this project.

One of the advantages of online shopping is that you can assemble a shopping basket of 'bits' and see the price. I'd be surprised if the full list of parts didn't come to double the price of a flat pack budget hive. For any of the framed formats you will have to assemble and fit wax to a frame - very few can afford to use preassembled and replace them every couple of years. It's a step up to assemble flat pack boxes, but there's no cutting or planing, just glue and nail. A tape measure to check it's square and a hammer are the only essential additions. A few screws at strategic points and drilling pilot holes are a popular addition, but your choice.

All choices are a compromise, and what suits you depends on a whole bunch of variables we know nothing about. Extra deep (14x12) broods are a popular option but multiple boxes are more versatile and a colony is a living thing, one size rarely fits all. If you can check the feeder levels every day or two, a small rapid feeder is fine. Only once a week and you need something bigger. There will be mistakes, or rather, sub optimal choices. But you won't know what they are until they happen. Enjoy the journey, it's a learning experience.

 

[luckydunny]

Hi Rustic Crafts

I am still in my first year and consider myself a novice.

Join Association, make friends, find a Mentor and go to meetings and watch/get hands on if possible.

Kit -

try F.P. your Association should get you a 10% discount. Their buidget hives are ply and flatpack. If use PVA and Sadolin, (on outside) will last long enough.
Agree get a good suit and have a spare. Borrow extractor.

You will need the eqiuvalent of two hives even if only one colony. You can never have too many Supers or hive tools!!!

Save lemonade bottles to carry sugar solutions in.

Make sure you have a good site for hive.

I have learnt a lot about bee space and hive design/construction by first making up packs and then trying to make own CB, OMF's, Eke, roof and hive stands. Not yet managed supers as can buy for less than £10.

I use Dave Cushaman's website as a online reference manual and of course this forum answers "most" of my unasked questions!!

Good luck and enjoy - hide receipts at all times!

 

[stoneleighhouse]

HI RC year 2 beek
I found mentor who I bought honey from, he put me in touch with one of his fellow beeks who sold me a second hand good quality hive and smoker for £60, my mentor sold me a beesuit which came from Germany £50 but very good quality , they're cheaper there than uk.
Went to th##es seconds sale bought national flatpacks and made up more hives , great if you buy some dowelling and know what to do with numerous knot holes
Joined association, OK but some very cliquey and patronising dudes, find this forum best for information at least you can ask questions without the disapproving snorts

What would I have done differently?
mm got a bit over enthusiastic with the seconds ended up with 6 hives 22 supers only using 2 at the moment However room for expansion as I learn!.

What have I learnt.There are as many opinions on this forum as bees in my hives but I stay enthusiastic and try not to get the sh#ts up too often
S#d the honey the bees are fascinating

 

[Teemore]

Rustic-crafts,
There are advantages to each of the options you set out. I think each one you listed includes frames which saves you from having to order those separately and any of the options that also includes foundation would save further hassle in the short term.
I don't know whether you have followed the debate about DN4/DN5 top bars elsewhere on the forum but it would be useful to catch up on it: I think most of the 'ready-made' options only offer DN4 frames and I consider this a limitation.
Whether to go National or 14x12 is a choice that will in part be informed by the source of bees you hope to get. If you plan to buy a Nuc, ask the vendor what hive they use and whether those bees can be managed within that size of hive. The more prolific the strain of bee, the larger the brood box(s) you will need.
This will be my second full season keeping my own bees. I started with a flat pack National brood box sourced locally. I assembled it, made my own open mesh floor, crown board and roof. I sourced frames and wax locally and cheaply. Since then I have been more organised about purchasing wax and frames, taking advantage of winter sales and bulk wax orders for a group of people. I have continued to make my own open mesh floors, crown boards, clearer boards, roofs and supers as I find this cost effective although I have invested in some poly brood boxes and supers as I found that bees I overwintered in a trial poly hive have thrived.
I opted for National as that is the type of hive predominantly used around me and it is the frame format that my original bees came on. This compatibility of hive type in the local area gives me additional flexibility if test frames are needed etc.
I would suggest that your first priority is to buy yourself a good bee suit. As a beginner, a full suit will give extra protection and a little more confidence to work around a full hive of bees. Personally I bought a full bee suit but have used and would be equally happy with a jacket and will probably buy one as my regular beekeeping attire in preference to a full suit.

If you start with the bee suit you can then progressively gather up the other equipment as you gain experience working with bees. I would suggest that you ensure you get the following before or with your first bee hive:
Bee suit
Gloves - I personally use disposable medical latex gloves with a long cuff which stretches up your arm
A mentor
Hive tool(s) - J type is my preference but I also carry the scraper type on inspections
Water mister - i find most colony inspections are made easier using a mist of water rather than smoke
Smoker

 

[BeeJayBee]

a see-through crownboard should be on every newb's shopping list.

Ours were made by a local "plastics" company, signmakers also use acrylic/polycarbonate/perspex and will cut one to size, with a feeder hole too, if you want one. Ours are 6mm thick.