Buying first Bees

[wessexmario]

I'm taking about the wedge that comes as part of the top bar, that's normally twice as wide as it's thick. (not the bottom bar, which can be square)
The image below has a detached wedge in the centre

http://www.beverlybees.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Wedge-Removed.jpg

 

[pargyle]

I've never understood this: it has an almost square section so can you spell it out a bit? Sorry to be stupid.

PS top other foundationless types: BOY mine are making a lot of drone comb at present.

Mine are making a lot of drone comb .. it's what they do at this time of the year.

The wedge strip is not completely square .. it's rectangular ... here you are ...

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Gotcha both. Thank you.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have used a triangular section of timber painted with beeswax nailed to the underside of the frames top bar so far ... works very well. You need a straight drawn frame in the hive to give them a guide and start them off in the right direction.

Having said that .. I'm now trying a different a slightly different 'starter strip'. I cut the bottom of the hoffman top bars off flush using my band saw .. I then ended up with the strip of timber I cut off as 'waste'. So, I've tried nailing that to the underside of the topbar and coating that with wax (saves cutting triangular bits). Seems to be working just as well at present but only just tried a few frames with this system so I'll be back when they are a bit more advanced.

A lot of people just use a strip of foundation about an inch deep put into the top of the frame in the conventional way using the wedge and this also works very well. Now I've got a fair bit of my own beeswax I'm also going to make some of my own wax 'starter strips' and try those.

I don't think it matters a great deal to the bees what you use to start them off ... I like a strip of timber in the top of the frames as I think it adds a bit of stability to the comb at the point of attachment.

You will also need to wire your brood frames horizointally if you are thinking of going down the foundationless route. Tom Bicks thread here will give you lots of ideas ...

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27494

You will probably find that if you just leave the channel between wedge and frame, that will be enough for them to go by. Top bars we used in Africa were just 33mm battens with a saw cut down the middle - bees used the channel as a guide. When I got there all the Langstroth hives had been supplied with wired frames with a channel in the top bar and foundation for starter strips, they hadn't realised what that was for and put the frames in bare. even though the frames were European spacings in most cases the bees had built their comb with the centres starting in the channels

 

[Fritillary]

Many thanks for all suggestions. Pinning on the wedge bar, waxed, looks good. Have found in the top bars that sometimes just that sort of thing works, but that sometimes the odd starter strip of foundation is useful. Was hoping not to have to fix strips of unwired foundation into all the frames! - and wondered if just filling the groove under their top bars with wax would do it.

Here one of my colonies has masses of drone brood - in drone comb. This colony did the same thing last spring. Then I thought perhaps I'd left them too much space, and they were cold. This year I'm sure that's not the reason. The emerging drones look nice and big and fat! - but the colony was sure getting through its stores fast. Have been half expecting to see drone brood being thrown out, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Obee1]

I've been fixing a one inch strip of wireless foundation to the top of a hoffman frame. However not sure what is best done at the bottom of the frame. Put in both of the bottom bars or would just one suffice - which would obviously be off centre. Or does anyone just omit the bottom bar and only leave side bars?

 

[pargyle]

I've been fixing a one inch strip of wireless foundation to the top of a hoffman frame. However not sure what is best done at the bottom of the frame. Put in both of the bottom bars or would just one suffice - which would obviously be off centre. Or does anyone just omit the bottom bar and only leave side bars?

I think you really need the bottom bar or bars to give the frame some dimensional stability otherwise when you are levering them out of the hive they are going to distort and you could risk the comb breaking off. For what little extra time it takes to put them in it's a no brainer. The bees will build down to the bottom bars and incorporate them into the comb.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

and incorporate them into the comb.

Mine don't often draw to the bottom bars. Does a coat of wax help?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've been fixing a one inch strip of wireless foundation to the top of a hoffman frame. However not sure what is best done at the bottom of the frame. Put in both of the bottom bars or would just one suffice - which would obviously be off centre. Or does anyone just omit the bottom bar and only leave side bars?

you need a bottom bar, I have some wired frames with starter strips from my bait hives, I only put one bottom bar in and they draw it down tidily - being slightly offset makes no difference

Mine don't often draw to the bottom bars. Does a coat of wax help?

How much space between the bottom of the frames and the floor? my floors are flush leaving just single beespace and they sometimes don't bother drawing to the bottom bar, even sometimes (but not always) chewing the wax away

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

How much space between the bottom of the frames and the floor? my floors are flush leaving just single beespace and they sometimes don't bother drawing to the bottom bar, even sometimes (but not always) chewing the wax away

In the bottom box I understand it will be tough to draw to the bottom, but I struggle sometimes when they are drawing higher up. I've learnt to align the frames as much as possible but still those annoying gaps, even when I use foundation. I'm gradually accruing some perfect comb, but it's slow work and I wonder how to help it along.

 

[DaveS]

Hi

A few years ago I bought a nucleus off someone on the Wirral although the queen was imported. They were nice docile bees.

If you want a nucleus north cheshire bka run a 'bee dating' programme matching sellers with buyers - I looked recently and not updated for 2015 but for 2013 it stated the average price was £150. You have to be a member to use this service. Pm me if you want the email address.

I think a nucleus is a good way to start - you get a new queen but a swarm is cheaper.

You have to be lucky to attract a swarm yourself so it depends on how patient you are - I'd never seen a swarm until I started beekeeping.

Good luck.