BS Nuc

[BeeJuice]

I'm getting a couple of colonies which will be in poly BS hives (not NUCs)

Later in the year I hope to make up a nuc. Can I reuse the full sized brood box for this? (Adapting if necessary). Or am I better off buying a nuc box and transferring once the colony has grown a bit.

Thanks.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Polynucs are cheap or dummy down full size broods with ply backed insulation

 

[sbisme]

I would just use the BS poly brood and dummy down

 

[BeeJuice]

Makes sense. So I put in the 5 or 6 frames, then a dummy frame and then pack out the space behind with insulation...? Then the next year remove the insulation and add more frames of foundation..

 

[sbisme]

Makes sense. So I put in the 5 or 6 frames, then a dummy frame and then pack out the space behind with insulation...? Then the next year remove the insulation and add more frames of foundation..

Depends when you plan to make the new Nuc's you'll be surprised how quick a colony will grow

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Won't the poly broods still be occupied by the original colonies?

 

[BeeJuice]

My plan was to transfer the new colony from the poly hive it comes in and move to a wooden brood box.

Later, when I see signs of swarming or the colony looks like it is outgrowing the BB, I'll Demaree. I'll then take a few frames (with a queen cell) from the original BB (now separated from the Queen and at the top of the hive) and make up a nuc.

Or, if I understand correctly, could I just make up a new colony from the BB on the top by moving to a new hive? I guess then I would need the full size BB rather than a nuc size hive.

This is all new to me.

 

[BeeJuice]

Won't the poly broods still be occupied by the original colonies?

I'm intending to move from them poly to wood..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

One thing - if you find queen cells - it's way too late to demarree

 

[BeeJuice]

From what I read I understood that I could expect to find Queen cells in the BB on the top of the hive some time after I demarree. The Queen would be at the bottom of the hive under a queen excluder so the bees in the top box would naturally try to make a new Queen.

In my head it was beginning to make sense... Now where did I leave Ted Hooper's book.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

From what I read I understood that I could expect to find Queen cells in the BB on the top of the hive some time after I demarree. The Queen would be at the bottom of the hive under a queen excluder so the bees in the top box would naturally try to make a new Queen.

Yes - to be effective a demarree needs to be conducted before they start preparing to swarm, ie when the colony is on the point but has not reached filling the brood to capacity.you need a couple of supers separating the queen from the top box. The bees in the top box should start making QC's immediately the split happens - check after three or four days and take down any sealed QCs then use the remaining ones for making increase.

 

[BeeJuice]

Yes - to be effective a demarree needs to be conducted before they start preparing to swarm, ie when the colony is on the point but has not reached filling the brood to capacity.you need a couple of supers separating the queen from the top box. The bees in the top box should start making QC's immediately the split happens - check after three or four days and take down any sealed QCs then use the remaining ones for making increase.

Thanks for the clarification... That's going to be the plan.

 

[Fatbee]

Depends when you plan to make the new Nuc's you'll be surprised how quick a colony will grow

There is a lot of talk from people on the forum at the moment about using nuc method for swarm control without it seems realising a queen in a nuc will keep on laying.

 

[drex]

so? Yes she will keep laying. If she is a good queen, parking her in a nuc temporarily, will keep her going until you see the quality of the replacement. If in the nuc too long frames of brood can be removed and put in other colonies to boost them - Mike Palmer's " brood factories"

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There is a lot of talk from people on the forum at the moment about using nuc method for swarm control without it seems realising a queen in a nuc will keep on laying.

A good example - early last season in the association apiary we found (on the first inspection) QC's in one colony. Being pushed for time and kit that day I decided to take the queen away in a nuc ( a week later we also took another nuc out of the colony with a QC.)
The original red queen expanded so fast that within a couple of weeks she was in a full hive which I later had to Pagden before it was supered (weather and time constraints stopped us from inspecting).
The original hive produced over three supers of honey, the 'Q-' side of the Pagden gave one super with another being nadired at the end of the year and the original red queen gave one super and went into winter a strong and healthy hive.

 

[Into the lions den]

From what I read I understood that I could expect to find Queen cells in the BB on the top of the hive some time after I demarree. The Queen would be at the bottom of the hive under a queen excluder so the bees in the top box would naturally try to make a new Queen.

In my head it was beginning to make sense... Now where did I leave Ted Hooper's book.

Demaree is good, and can build your muscles up lol, bulding and unbuilding and rebuilding the whole stack at each examination.

Timed correctly, which is when the brood box is approaching full but before cells have started (even eggs in pups is enough) then the majority of demaree cases will NOT raise cells. However you MUST check for this just to be sure. If they DO draw good cells you can exploit this by inserting a flight board under the old nest which is now at the top of the hive, leaving ONE good cell, and allow her to fly and mate from the top. You then can use it for a split OR for reuniting later and thus requeening.

Demaree is usually good for about 3 weeks of swarm control before you have to repeat the job. If its a dearth time it does not occur so quickly.

For it to be most effective you need DRAWN comb in the new brood box.

If you don't have that then use your second deep as your first super initially, and let the bees draw a lot of the frames out, then use THAT box to Demaree into, adding normal supers above an excluder at that time. They will rapidly move the honey up into the supers as the queen wants to lay.

Its a system that works best with some experience under your belt...

If I was writing a book it would almost need a chapter to itself to deal with all the wrinkles to the system.


ps....when I use the term 'pups' or 'pup cells' I get asked what I mean by it. Its the term for what many have come to call play cells, but they are not a play cell at all. They are the cups prepared for the queen to lay in before swarming kicks off. Watch them closely over the season and you can learn a lot, as the shape changes slightly according to the bees stage of development towards swarming. Especially the mouth of the cell. Its generally a little big and wide and narrowed down to worker cell size about the time of laying, then re=enlarged once they want to feed a larva. The further on in the cycle it is the less chance you have of Demaree being effective.

ps2.... you should always have a box...ie a super.....between the excluder and the by now upper deep.

 

[Into the lions den]

The original red queen expanded so fast that within a couple of weeks she was in a full hive which I later had to Pagden before it was supered (weather and time constraints stopped us from inspecting).
.

ITLD has to admit he does not have a clue what a Pagden is. Never heard the term.


Wondering if its another of those simple processes used in many places that somehow acquires the name of a UK beek who used it........... ?


Added later...

Cancel that question. Its a bog standard simple splitting for increase process. Used around the world for a very very long time. When did it end up getting that name?

 

[B+.]

When did it end up getting that name?

When a UK beek used it ;-)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

ITLD

Cancel that question. Its a bog standard simple splitting for increase process. Used around the world for a very very long time. When did it end up getting that name?

Bog standard artificial swarm - queen in empty brood box in original location, QC's and nurse bees next door, so yes, I suppose you split the hive in two.

 

[BeeJuice]

Demaree is good, and can build your muscles up lol, bulding and unbuilding and rebuilding the whole stack at each examination....

Thanks for this. You have answered so many questions I still had.

I now understand where the flight board comes into use... using the second deep as the first super initially to get the drawn foundation... it now makes sense.

I've read what I can on Demaree - it seems to have many advantages over splitting the hive and still gives many options.

It is very strange that (unlike most subjects) there is very little on YouTube regarding the demaree method - just one video of a bloke in the US who ends up getting stung a lot.