brood removed after apiguard

[Suzi Q]

I bought a tub of apiguard this year rather than the trays, carefully followed the instructions regarding the scoop and spatula placing the stuff on the waxed cardboard. Hive is brood and a half, with a 50mm eke, closed crownboard and varroa tray inserted.
Anybody else had the capped brood and larvae removed after applying apiguard? This is after day 3. Maybe I should remove some of the apiguard?

 

[Arfermo]

Vary bad infestation so probably worth sacrifice of brood this early to avoid dwv etc. Capped brood will probably survive? I don't normally put Apiguard on until last week in August as the 4 weeks treatment period still leaves time for the bees to recover and continue foraging - ivy, balsam mainly - and maybe a small amount of brood if the queen is still in the mood.

 

[Skyhook]

I've had all the brood removed after treatment- not sure if it was a bad infestation, the weather or what. I took the opportunity of the brood break, whipped the thymol out and OA'd. They sprang back clean and healthy.

.

 

[Suzi Q]

This hive had a high varroa load, natural drop of 40+ in 24 hrs, so brought forward the thymol treament. Lots of drones from that hive this year, and have seen a few shiny bees and some crawlers, so I think I'll continue with the apiguard and maybe it's just as well they chucked out the brood! They're getting used to the thymol now hopefully, they can have OA in January!
Just thought perhaps the apiguard is stronger or a different consistancy and evaporates quicker than the trays? Or the scoop is more than the required 50g? Think I'll weigh it when I treat the other hives.

 

[bontbee]

I have found that the scoop that is supplied is too big. I am weighing mine out, at least until I get my eye in. Poor design.

 

[protheroe]

the scoop wasnt designed for nationals.my colonies did the same with a full scoop.3/4 of a scoop should be plenty.i now use thymol crystals mixed in oil,works really well and no brood gets ripped out.

 

[oliver90owner]

Not good. This has been reported previously. Perhaps need to ask the mnufacturer.

Possibly as the scenarios suggested above, but I doubt it.

Correct dose should not affect the brood, high varroa load or not. Open brood will not be yet affected by varroa infestation - unless at the point of capping. The box size here should not be an issue - maybe for a deep brood, but not a brood and a half as that is on a par with a Langstroth.

The most likely, IMO, is separation in storage - the thymol is concentrating somehow. If it is, then the other end of the bucket would be depleted of thymol and the scenario would then be one of low efficacy. Not good.

A search of the forum archives may bring up the previous postings. I believe there to have been more than one.

The pertinent questions to ask are whether separation is possible, the storage time between manufacture and use-by date, why did this occur, what they intend to do about it. There may be others. Pointing out there have been earlier reports of this problem may avoid them telling you it has never happened to anyone else!

I, too, use thymol of my own preparation. I have never experienced wholesale loss of brood and generally get good efficacy. I dose at the standard rate into 14 x 12s and add further if limited bearding does not occur. I also take into account the weather, if particularly too hot or cool, at the dosing stages.

This stuff is marketed in widely varying climates, so should have been tested at the temperature limits long ago. Too late, now to remove some, I would suggest. The damage has been done. If all the brood has been outed, likely all the varroa are dead by now, or will be very shortly, so the treatment can soon be terminated. The queen will almost certainly be off-lay by now. No need in for oxalic, or any other treatment at the current time. If capped brood is still there, there will yet be varroa emerging from cells, which oxalic will not kill.

I generally only treat with thymol and that has been adequate for the last several years, to allow 'clean' winter bees to be raised.

RAB

 

[Suzi Q]

Thanks for your replies. I weighed a scoop today, 50g if the scoop is levelled off. The bees had removed all of the thymol by today after only 4 days, but thankfully not all of the brood has been disgarded just the brood directly underneath where the cardboard was sited. So I'll do another treatment in 2 weeks, but a smaller amount. Queen looks OK, after a quick look on a few frames no eggs, but expected that.

 

[Arfermo]

Suzi,

Lot of chalkbrood evident. Considered any of the various treatments?

 

[Suzi Q]

Not seen any sign of chalkbrood this year; brood in the process of being removed?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Thanks for your replies. I weighed a scoop today, 50g if the scoop is levelled off. The bees had removed all of the thymol by today after only 4 days, but thankfully not all of the brood has been disgarded just the brood directly underneath where the cardboard was sited. So I'll do another treatment in 2 weeks, but a smaller amount. Queen looks OK, after a quick look on a few frames no eggs, but expected that.

To me that suggests the thymol vapours are cascading down onto the brood immediately below the dose. In trays this cascade is diffused maybe?

 

[Suzi Q]

Could be, and there was no honey arch over the brood, so just too close.