Large colony - What to do?

[Mandeville]

I think one of my hives is overcrowded and I'm not sure what to do. The landing board is often covered with bees, whatever the weather.

At the moment the configuration is .....
BB - 14x12 - 6-7 frames brood
QX
Super - 3/4 capped
4" eke - left over from previous manipulation and not removed because it's full of bees in a big heap!
CB

I've been taking supers off one at a time and I want to remove the last one asap so that I can get varroa treatment on but I'm worried about reducing the hive volume any more than I already have.

I was thinking about the following setup
BB
QX
1" eke ready for Apiguard
BB or super with foundation or drawn comb (whatever I can find)
Clearer board
Full super
CB
Once the full super is cleared and removed, the Apiguard will go on. Then after treatment, if they're still overcrowded or have put stores in the upper BB/super, I'd nadir it for the winter.

So my questions are
Is this a solution?
Is there something else (?better) I can do?
If I use a super rather than a BB to give them extra space, will the wax be contaminated by the treatment and unusable in future?
Should the super/BB be full of frames, or would it be better half-full?

Sorry for long post - thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Hawklord]

You have 6-7 frames of brood, what is on the other 4-5 brood frames?

 

[Mandeville]

Stores - mostly capped honey. It's WBC so 10 frames in total.

The brood is on 6-7 frames, but isn't solid brood, they have arcs of stores plus there are empty areas, so still room for the queen to lay.

 

[Hawklord]

I suggest you remove the 3-4 brood frames, extract and return them to the colony. You also need to have another super above the queen excluder but below the part capped super. Also remove the eke, unless they have started to build comb in there.

 

[Erichalfbee]

yes, extract them and put one in the middle of the brood nest.
Soon I'll be putting a frame of foundation in the middle of my three strongest colonies so that I get a newly drawn frame laid up with winter bees.

 

[Tremyfro]

It's a dilemma isn't it? One of my colonies is on double brood...at least 11 frames of brood...several other frames have polished cells...so by now will have been filled with eggs. Lots and lots of bees. I have 3 supers on...not much in 2 of them but with this poor weather it gives the bees somewhere to hang out on rainy days and there have been a lot of those! Once the supers are removed...they will be moved into a Beehaus...which will accommodate all the brood frames and allow them space for their winter stores too. That's one of the things which is so limiting about vertical hives...it's all or nothing. In the long hive I can add extra space and frames as are needed.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Bees will generally squash down at this time of year without swarming and remember that bee numbers are reducing - or should be.

Mandeville - A frame or two of sealed stores can be removed for later use (next year if you like) if you feel there's not enough room for honey coming in. Place them next to the brood not in between. I see no advantage in splitting the brood at this time of year. And if you want more hanging space for the bees, you can get 11 frames in a WBC if you are using hoffman frames.

With a large colony on a double brood, I leave them like that over winter. Old frames can go down and towards the sides and most probably they'll be empty in spring when they can be removed for fitting with foundation.

Simples.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I see no advantage in splitting the brood at this time of year. .

It's a really good way to get new comb laid up by the queen for winter, if your colony is a strong one.

 

[Finman]

.
Dilemma ....two equally bad alternatives...

Hives has too much bees... What problem or dilemma is that?

Brood box has capped honey frames..... What problem is that?

Have you told to bees what they should do, and what they cannot do.

IT is better go squeeze the Queen, if bees do not co operate with you. Execute her at sunrise!

 

[Mandeville]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

Hawklord - you're suggesting a super to give them more space for now. Will the Apiguard taint the wax? Or will it be OK to use in a future season?

I hadn't thought of removing frames from the BB - I'll try that, it would give them something to do.

Hebeegeebee - this particular colony is the stickiest one in the world, they produce an amazing amount of propolis. Last winter they sealed the gap between the top bars over a distance of about 4" from each side. So I have to use a dummy board rather than the extra frame to give me a better chance of actually being able to prise the frames out.

I'm hoping not to to have to resort to double brood - but this is the second time that this colony has been ginormous going into autumn, so maybe I'll have to try brood and a half next season.

 

[For want of a better word]

.
Dilemma ....two equally bad alternatives...

Hives has too much bees... What problem or dilemma is that?

Brood box has capped honey frames..... What problem is that?

Have you told to bees what they should do, and what they cannot do.

IT is better go squeeze the Queen, if bees do not co operate with you. Execute her at sunrise!

Finnie... you are learning the British ways in beekeepering... WE will make a TwoHiver out of you yet!

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

Finnie... you are learning the British ways in beekeepering... WE will make a TwoHiver out of you yet!
[
Y
]

Yeah. Learning and away learning. looks like more bee dramaturgia than beekeeping.

,

.

 

[richardbees]

- but this is the second time that this colony has been ginormous going into autumn, so maybe I'll have to try brood and a half next season.

Mandeville

So what went wrong the first time ?

richard

 

[Mandeville]

I can't remember the sequence of events last year But I know I ended up putting a super below the BB for the winter.

They are just a very prolific colony - I did an AS earlier in the year plus lost at least one other swarm from them and they have still ended up being huge. I wish they put as much effort into honey production!

My main worry this year is whether the BB alone will be enough space for them when I've taken the last super off. And what to do if it isn't.

 

[richardbees]

Mandeville
Some Qs are incredibly prolific, looks like you've got one! For this year, the bees will compact into the BB and also naturally rapidly die off so keep a feeder of 2:1 syrup on top.

Next year, splitting in early April will help but also consider adding a Super underneath which will give her 30% more laying space - but a hell of a weight lifting problem for you to do weekly swarm Q cell inspections,
i.e. they swarmed last year because you missed finding Q cells.
good luck,
richard
(or you can always re-queen)

 

[Mandeville]

Thanks Richard - I had already made a mental note that I should do a split next year. Might have to do it twice!

I want to avoid going to double brood or brood-and-a-half if I possibly can because as you say, shifting a full 14x12 BB every week is not going to be good for my dodgy back.

And thank you for the reassurance that they will all fit into the BB for the winter. I took their last super off yesterday and left them an empty super to wander about in. The extracted super is going back on this evening. Once they've cleaned that, and I've taken it off, the only extra space they'll have will be the Apiguard eke, so they'll all have to budge up a bit then.

 

[richardbees]

imo not a good idea to put an empty super on top.....they'll start filling it with wild comb thus using up pollen/honey stores. So put your super of wet frames over a crownboard (with feeder hole) on top of the apiguard eke. I always leave the queen excluder on top of the bb whenever there is anything else on top.

If it was easy, everyone would be doing it

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The extracted super is going back on this evening. Once they've cleaned that, and I've taken it off, .

Why bother? just put the wet super in a plasic bag, sedal it up and leave in a cool place over winter ready to put back on in the spring

 

[Mandeville]

imo not a good idea to put an empty super on top.....they'll start filling it with wild comb thus using up pollen/honey stores.

I wouldn't normally leave them a lot of empty space but it was only for 36 hours. And they'd shown no interest in building in the eke that was already there so I took the chance.

So put your super of wet frames over a crownboard (with feeder hole) on top of the apiguard eke. I always leave the queen excluder on top of the bb whenever there is anything else on top.

That's exactly how I've done it

Why bother? just put the wet super in a plasic bag, sedal it up and leave in a cool place over winter ready to put back on in the spring

I've never done that - apart from saving time, is there any other advantage?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've never done that - apart from saving time, is there any other advantage?

It keeps wax moth away so you don't have to treat the stored supers
Next season the bees are straight into the supers