Brood enlargening downward

[B+.]

I'm sure that I speak for many when I say .

I thought the purpose of this forum was that we shared our experience and learned from each other. I don't need anyone to speak for me, thank you. I am quite capable of doing that for myself.

Personally, I was very interested to hear what Finman had to say as his experiences with the size of a colony compare with my own. I only wish we had the same nectar flows so I could collect similar harvests that he does.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I thought the purpose of this forum was that we shared our experience and learned from each other. I don't need anyone to speak for me, thank you. I am quite capable of doing that for myself.

Personally, I was very interested to hear what Finman had to say as his experiences with the size of a colony compare with my own. I only wish we had the same nectar flows so I could collect similar harvests that he does.

I agree. I have learnt a lot from Finman (I think - probably doing it all wrong).

 

[wessexmario]

I agree. I have learnt a lot from Finman (I think - probably doing it all wrong).

me too - and half the fun has been in the translation - but when you 'get it' Finman does have a lot of experience for others to learn from.

You have to understand the 'whole picture'; Finman doesn't use QXs, he allows the brood to migrate up and down the boxes over the year, it's that freedom to move the brood nest that lets the bees work the way they prefer.

The one thing that I appreciate most learning from Finman is that QXs are not for the convenience of the bees.

 

[Finman]

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Lets thank Dishmop too. He has written 17 writing in this chain, and the reason is to get me banned.

 

[B+.]

I dont believe that one overwintered brood box can expand to 3 or 4 boxes full in 10 days........

These colonies were over-wintered as a single Langstroth brood chamber. As you can see, they are currently occupying 4. This photo was taken on the 24th of May 2015 from my phones camera.
Edit: I had to crop the photo as it was too big to load. The other two boxes that came from the hive on the left (which were full of bees too) are just out of the picture on the left. You can see from the open hive on the left how full of bees they are.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

These colonies were over-wintered as a single Langstroth brood chamber. As you can see, they are currently occupying 4. This photo was taken on the 24th of May 2015 from my phones camera.
Edit: I had to crop the photo as it was too big to load. The other two boxes that came from the hive on the left are just out of the picture on the left

As you go deep into the dungeons ("before the mast" os a stack like that, do you ever get "attacked"? If so, what do you do, especially during swarm season?

 

[Ely]

There is also a difference in adding boxes above and below. Heat rises. It hasn't been too cold to add boxes below when they need the room for brood when there isn't a flow on or too cold to add above.

 

[B+.]

As you go deep into the dungeons ("before the mast" os a stack like that, do you ever get "attacked"? If so, what do you do, especially during swarm season?

I know you will find this difficult to believe, but, I have not had a single sting from any of these colonies. They are part of my breeding population of pure Carniolans.
No. I have never been "attacked" by them. They are actually very calm bees and bred over many generations for the characteristics we beekeepers look for in our bees. If you have read any of my posts earlier this year, you will remember me talking about my breeding work with BeeBreed.....these are the bees I was talking about.

 

[Dishmop]

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Lets thank Dishmop too. He has written 17 writing in this chain, and the reason is to get me banned.

A liitle bit of name calling doesnt warrants being banned.. its par for the course for you and regularly used as a diversion from not answering questions...

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I know you will find this difficult to believe, but, I have not had a single sting from any of these colonies. They are part of my breeding population of pure Carniolans.
No. I have never been "attacked" by them. They are actually very calm bees and bred over many generations for the characteristics we beekeepers look for in our bees. If you have read any of my posts earlier this year, you will remember me talking about my breeding work with BeeBreed.....these are the bees I was talking about.

Yes, and I try to keep up with you. My 5 (National)-boxer is a Peter Little Q and the bees are wonderful. But last time they had a go. I think I had been stung by a colony I am VERY dubious of the Q. I had to withdraw tactically.

Yes

 

[user 6228]

Your method of increasing spring build up is by adding more boxes underneath existing brood box? Elsewhere you tell us no good adding more boxes because bees cannot keep it warm enough for new brood.. So lets say that at end of season when you have taken all thier frames of honey from food boxes and you are left with three boxes of brood..........How do you decrease back to one box ready for winter?

In simple terms boxes above are additonal heat loss, boxes below are extra insulation. To see how the bees really behave you need to remove the QX.

 

[Finman]

These colonies were over-wintered as a single Langstroth brood chamber. As you can see, they are currently occupying 4. Tare.

Do you know, when hives started brood rearing? When they foraged pollen outside?

 

[B+.]

Do you know, when hives started brood rearing? When they foraged pollen outside?

Willow pollen is usually available in mid-late March but the weather here was cold/windy then. There was certainly brood present when I started monitoring natural mite fall on 15th March so they must have managed to get out to get some pollen even in that bad weather.
I think the poly hives are a big help. There was no chilled brood even though the weather was terrible.

 

[Finman]

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OSR pollen has good raw protein values. It makes hives fat.
Lack of pollen in Spring can be seen from amount of holes in brood area.
Some hives are able to store pollen much more quicker than another hives. That accelerates their build up.

I have big differencies in build. Biggest have now 4 boxes and smallest one box.

 

[B+.]

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OSR pollen has good raw protein values. It makes hives fat.

That apiary was surrounded on three sides by Oil Seed Rape. The colonies have lots of pollen in them. I am trying todecide if I should move them to another apiary which is surrounded by beans. It will be a good site to over-winter too because there are fields nearby which have cereals in them now so they should have rape next spring. There are lots of hedgerows too.

 

[dano41]

Finman find your posts very interesting and have been applying some of your methods with great success.I would much appreciate it if you could clarify a couple of points.I totally understand your logic in putting the brood box underneath, is there a point that you check the single brood box and can say that this is the perfect time to put on the bottom brood box?If so could you explain exactly how you decide this?Or do you just decide now is the time to put on bottom box because If I leave it any later and they need space the bees wont be at full force for July.If there is heat in your hives coming from heater on the floor are you able to put lower box on even if the single box is not at the ideal condition which would be required if youe didn't us heat?

 

[Finman]

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When I give a new box, I need not exact timing.. Heat stays in brood area on top and when more bees emerge, they can occupy more space downstairs.

When I give a third box, I may swap first and second boxes. Often lower box is half full brood, and when I put it topmost, it will be totally full of brood on next week.

Hives are very different, but I do not need many seconds to decide what to do.

If colony is full and bursting out, I may give one box on top and one to lowest. But I do not plit brood space.

The fourth I surely add over brood.

 

[Finman]

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Heater

This spring I did not put heaters on floors, because minimum factor was clearly lack of pollen. May was very rainy.

But when I had heaters, queen came very easily to lay near bottom. It tells how important us heat in spring. I need not swap brood boxes.

Further more with heater queen lays full the frame, from corner to corner. This year corners of frame are filled with honey.

Actually I learned the meaning of heat by the help of electric heated.
First factor is of course warm, insulated boxes.

 

[dano41]

Finman thank you very much for your replies.If I could just ask one more.you use a top and bottom enterance and have said in the past that during a big flow it can happen that the bottom enterance is hardly used, did you ever try a queen excluder on top of brood with an enterance on it to let the bees have access straight to supers?If you did how well did it work and was there a large difference in yield between that system and using a top and bottom entrance with no excluder

 

[B+.]

did you ever try a queen excluder on top of brood with an enterance on it to let the bees have access straight to supers?

This is like the "queen trap" system that Juhani Waara of Paradise Honey (Kerkoo, Finland) sells. There was a discussion about it in one of the threads recently and most people seemed to think it was a bad idea (drones blocking the excluder, virgins unable to mate, etc)