Brood disorder diagnosis

[Jack Straw]

I opened up a small colony on Saturday and found that there were just a few patches of brood and there was clearly something wrong with it. A few sealed worker/drone cells but most of the brood seems to have died off within a few days of their egg hatching. The larvae in most cases has started to turn grey, no larvae had turned yellow/brown. No obvious signs of movement amongst the larvae and no noticeable smell. When touched with a matchstick the larvae turned to water like liquid - no stringing. The queen was walking around normally and was being shown respect by the workers.

The two photos - sorry about the quality show the worst frame. Looking at the clearer photo as soon as any of the greying larvae, eg the cells 4 in from the right edge 6,7 rows down and the cell just to the right of the upper most bee were touched with a match they immediately turned to water. Two cells close to the centre show the larvae has collapsed/melted.

Seasonal BI is coming out to have a look at the end of this week

Be interested to have your comments

 

[pargyle]

Could be EFB ... early stages are larvae turning off white and watery, no roping with matchstick test .. subsequently larvae turning yellowish - brown - not usually a strong odour with EFB. RBI will have a testing kit so you will know for certain. Be ready for a complete hive swap - not usually necessary for a hive to be destroyed and kit burnt.

 

[peteinwilts]

Where in the UK are you?

All beekeepers should know when something is not right (even if they do not know what is wrong!), but it helps all local beekeepers in the area to be extra vigilant.

fingers crossed it is a false alarm, or easily treatable. Let us know the results regardless..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Looks very much like EFB to me I'm afraid. Biosecurity

 

[Finman]

.
Sounds like EFB.

Combs are heavenly old.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The watchword now. Hopefully it's just my failing eyes

 

[Jack Straw]

Suprisingly

.
Sounds like EFB.

Combs are heavenly old.

Surprisingly combs are exactly 12 months old

 

[Jack Straw]

Thanks

Where in the UK are you?

All beekeepers should know when something is not right (even if they do not know what is wrong!), but it helps all local beekeepers in the area to be extra vigilant.

fingers crossed it is a false alarm, or easily treatable. Let us know the results regardless..

Thanks to all for responding. The RBI over the phone thought potentially sac-brood but in fairness to him he hasn't seen the frames or even the photo's. I'll be pleased when it is diagnosed properly, whether sac-brood, EFB or otherwise but I'll admit the EFB was my first thought.

I am in mid-Kent and have already forewarned the local BBKA that there is an issue. I am sure that if it is confirmed many local bkeepers will be made aware

5 replies all of the same opinion, is that a Forum record?!!

 

[wessexmario]

some tips on taking frame photos...

The closer you get, the more the lens has to focus away from the default infinity setting and the shallower the depth of field becomes; pulling back and not getting too close will often produce a much clearer picture across the whole image.

With the high resolution of digital cameras these days, it's usually better to not get so close that you cannot get a whole frame into view, and with close up shots the smaller depth of field means it's more important to focus the camera before taking the shot - with mobile phones and tablets it's often as simple as just tapping on the screen to make it focus on a particular spot before clicking the shutter, but don't move further or closer after doing so.

Getting really close also means that more light will be shaded from the central cells by the camera body, keeping back will allow the natural light to get down into the cells, resulting in a better photo. Do also take one shot with flash and one without, as you can never tell with the light and shadows on combs, for close ups a good background light and no flash can often be much better, as the flash reflections and shadows caused by the depth of the cell walls can hide a lot of colour and detail.

 

[Jack Straw]

Good tips on taking frame photo's, shall keep in mind for another time

 

[midnight sun]

I opened up a small colony on Saturday and found that there were just a few patches of brood and there was clearly something wrong with it. A few sealed worker/drone cells but most of the brood seems to have died off within a few days of their egg hatching. The larvae in most cases has started to turn grey, no larvae had turned yellow/brown. No obvious signs of movement amongst the larvae and no noticeable smell. When touched with a matchstick the larvae turned to water like liquid - no stringing. The queen was walking around normally and was being shown respect by the workers.

The two photos - sorry about the quality show the worst frame. Looking at the clearer photo as soon as any of the greying larvae, eg the cells 4 in from the right edge 6,7 rows down and the cell just to the right of the upper most bee were touched with a match they immediately turned to water. Two cells close to the centre show the larvae has collapsed/melted.

Seasonal BI is coming out to have a look at the end of this week

Be interested to have your comments

Can I ask if there are plenty of bees in this hive. How 'small' is this colony?
The reason I ask, is that I've seen something very similar in one of mine that had a handful of bees and they basically just couldn't provide enough heat to keep all the brood warm and fed. This resulted in a similar appearance to your frames. After dummying down and getting a feed on they recovered.
I'm not trying to build up false hope after what has already been stated as EFB on here but I just wondered. I'm probably wrong. Hope it's not EFB. Regards

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33391
May be worth a look at this thread I started a couple of weeks ago. My first thought was EFB but turned out not to be for the above reasons. May be no use to you now but worth a look

 

[mbc]

I know the photos iffy, but looks to me like a failing queen/ drone layer issue.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I know the photos iffy, but looks to me like a failing queen/ drone layer issue.

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

 

[mbc]

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

But I posted first, so I get the prize (is it a cream egg?)

 

[Hivemaker.]

But I posted first, so I get the prize (is it a cream egg?)

A Mars bar, i think.

 

[Jack Straw]

Size of colony

Can I ask if there are plenty of bees in this hive. How 'small' is this colony?
The reason I ask, is that I've seen something very similar in one of mine that had a handful of bees and they basically just couldn't provide enough heat to keep all the brood warm and fed. This resulted in a similar appearance to your frames. After dummying down and getting a feed on they recovered.
I'm not trying to build up false hope after what has already been stated as EFB on here but I just wondered. I'm probably wrong. Hope it's not EFB. Regards

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33391
May be worth a look at this thread I started a couple of weeks ago. My first thought was EFB but turned out not to be for the above reasons. May be no use to you now but worth a look

The colony was small but was covering 4-5 frames in the brood box, including bring in quite a lot of stores. In my opinion there were sufficient bees present to do the house keeping duties.

 

[Jack Straw]

Prizes available but....

But I posted first, so I get the prize (is it a cream egg?)

Cream eggs and Mars bars most certainly available as prizes but first you have to be right!

I am not sure that the queen is the issue here; as you say the photo's are a bit iffy but I don't think that fully explains the failure of the brood and the fact the grey brood immediately turns to a watery liquid as soon as it is lightly touched with a matchstick

Being looked at by a Bee Inspector on Friday morning so will let you know whether you get a prize then

Kind regards and thanks for your input

Jack

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So what was the result of the inspection?

 

[midnight sun]

So what was the result of the inspection?

Ditto!

 

[mbc]

Cream egg me thinks