Brood Boxes

[Beefriendly]

Breeding from a Keld and Stoeffen pair of F0s breeding queens so hopefully they should fill the doubles nicely.

I think you might need double Dadants with that cross

 

[BMH]

I think you might need double Dadants with that cross

Lol. I'll treble up or double and a half if needs be.

Cross that bridge when I come to it

 

[Stiffy]

I run both, but moving completely to double nationals. i still have a lot of 14x12’s and although nice to just have the one box to go through there are downsides mainly to do with frames. The frames are considerably more expensive, foundation is more expensive and they are a bugger to handle in warm weather as the wax warms.
S

 

[BMH]

I run both, but moving completely to double nationals. i still have a lot of 14x12’s and although nice to just have the one box to go through there are downsides mainly to do with frames. The frames are considerably more expensive, foundation is more expensive and they are a bugger to handle in warm weather as the wax warms.
S

Bee equipment are doing pack of fifty 14 x 12 first quality for £26. Same price as the DN4!

Good to hear most are settled on double nationals

 

[Stiffy]

Bee equipment are doing pack of fifty 14 x 12 first quality for £26. Same price as the DN4!

Good to hear most are settled on double nationals

Although I only use ‘1st’ in an emergency, that’s a good deal. Is there foundation comparable?
S

 

[Angry_Mob]

I run both, but moving completely to double nationals. i still have a lot of 14x12’s and although nice to just have the one box to go through there are downsides mainly to do with frames. The frames are considerably more expensive, foundation is more expensive and they are a bugger to handle in warm weather as the wax warms.
S

When I did my comparison on wax and frames the 14x12 was approx a third more but you need to remember that you need to price x22 nationals frames against x11 14x12 in which case the 14x12 is cheaper. Also one single brood 14x12 is cheaper than x2 nationals.

If I lived in more southerly climes I think the double brood may be the way to go but its never gets that hot here in NI so the 14x12 works well for me.

 

[BMH]

Although I only use ‘1st’ in an emergency, that’s a good deal. Is there foundation comparable?
S

Not sure about foundation but I bet you still struggle to find 2nd quality frames at that price in the winter sales.

 

[mbc]

I just don't get the advantage of 14x12, the format is less flexible and I found working through any number of hives the 14x12 unwieldy frames cause exhaustion, for me and my bees anyway, maybe because natives will invariably put a heavy honey arc at the top of the frames. As mentioned, with standard nationals double brood is a good option, makes quick inspections a one minute job in swarming season with a split and peek.

 

[Angry_Mob]

Not sure about foundation but I bet you still struggle to find 2nd quality frames at that price in the winter sales.

Thorne second 14x12 frames were £39 during the Christmas sale, I think Maisemore was a £1 or 2 more expensive.

The DN4 seconds were actually £28 so £26 for firsts is good value as well.

 

[madasafish]

I run both, but moving completely to double nationals. i still have a lot of 14x12’s and although nice to just have the one box to go through there are downsides mainly to do with frames. The frames are considerably more expensive, foundation is more expensive and they are a bugger to handle in warm weather as the wax warms.
S

No problem handling Lang jumbos in hot weather - and they are bigger than 14x12s But I do use wired frames (horizontal)and wired foundation (vertiical) so they are much stronger than one on set of wires.. I find one set of wires indequate for large frames...

 

[Stiffy]

No problem handling Lang jumbos in hot weather - and they are bigger than 14x12s But I do use wired frames (horizontal)and wired foundation (vertiical) so they are much stronger than one on set of wires.. I find one set of wires indequate for large frames...

Thats the problem, the wiring doesn't support the wax sufficiently and makes inspections slow.
Although with hindsight , I would have opted for all Langs, double nationals seems to work well and can be manipulated more easily than 14x12 with my prolific strain of bees.
S

 

[drex]

I find swapping over the position of double broods a good swarm delaying tactic, and getting the brood right up against the excluder maximises her laying.

 

[SWEET]

^^ Good tip thanks.

 

[Lancs Lad]

I find swapping over the position of double broods a good swarm delaying tactic, and getting the brood right up against the excluder maximises her laying.

I agree, also if you constantly move brood to the top box in double brood they pass through the queen excluder easier to store the honey above their heads so you get less honey In the brood chamber . Moving brood to the top box in double brood reduces swarming as the queen can move down to lay a bit like doing a Demaree beneath the queen excluder.

 

[SDM]

I find swapping over the position of double broods a good swarm delaying tactic, and getting the brood right up against the excluder maximises her laying.

And maximises your harvest too as you get no honey stored in brood boxes.

 

[Murox]

I agree, also if you constantly move brood to the top box in double brood they pass through the queen excluder easier to store the honey above their heads so you get less honey In the brood chamber . Moving brood to the top box in double brood reduces swarming as the queen can move down to lay a bit like doing a Demaree beneath the queen excluder.

Just a couple of thoughts/questions - queens usually want go UP to an empty laying space, yet you "force" them down. Would it not be more logical to move brood down and leave space for laying in the top box ? How/why does moving brood UP help bees pass through an excluder more easily ?
If your bees a swarm during a flow I think its your fault for not having enough drawn supers (not foundation) on the colony in advance of the flow.

 

[Beefriendly]

Couldn't agree more, particularly in spring..I find (most) queens only want to lay in (warm) top brood box. So it's moving brood frames down and empty ones up.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Just a couple of thoughts/questions - queens usually want go UP to an empty laying space, yet you "force" them down. Would it not be more logical to move brood down and leave space for laying in the top box ? How/why does moving brood UP help bees pass through an excluder more easily ?
If your bees a swarm during a flow I think its your fault for not having enough drawn supers (not foundation) on the colony in advance of the flow.

If you look at natural colonies in a cavity the comb is hung from the roof and as nectar is processed it is stored over the brood nest and the queen has to move down. Three things combined bring about swarming lack of space above their heads so nowhere to store processed honey, lack of space for the brood nest to move down and lack of space for nectar to be brought in. This is most probably why the Rose hive and the Warre are so successful.

 

[Murox]

In a sense you are nadiring repeatedly and giving laying space. I can see that the division/movement of brood upwards and the freeing up of laying space will help minimise swarming coupled with having enough drawn supers on the colony for a flow.
I guess it doesn’t matter if the Queen is in the top or bottom box because she will still have plenty of room for laying.

 

[SDM]

Just a couple of thoughts/questions - queens usually want go UP to an empty laying space, yet you "force" them down. Would it not be more logical to move brood down and leave space for laying in the top box ? How/why does moving brood UP help bees pass through an excluder more easily ?
.

When you move brood up the queen is obviously already laying in the lower box , so you 'force" nothing.
If you move brood down they will create a honey ceiling in the upper brood.
When you move brood from the lower box you have brood all the way to the top of the frame, this forces them to create their honey ceiling in the supers . Less honey in brood frames means more space for laying, so less reason to swarm