Brood Boxes

[BMH]

I am in the market for quite a few brood boxes and trying to weigh up the pros and cons of making the move over to 14 x 12 for all my hives.

I currently run double brood nationals but not overly keen and it lengthens inspections and leaves a bit too much honey in some colonies.

I know its dependant on strain of bee but anyone want to put me off going down the 14 x 12 route before I commit to buying 100 of them. Then there is no going back!

 

[Beefriendly]

You might want to consider Dadants before going down that route.
Lots run their outfits on dadant shallows only. It's an interesting system, although quite hard work as you are moving any "brood" frames filled with honey upwards and bring empty "super" frames downwards, . But, I'm told, it is a real honey factory working hives like this.
I was looking at some poly ones recently, looked good and not very expensive.

 

[nantmoel]

I move totally to 14x12 years ago, but after rearing my own queens I've now got a few double BB's for 'Cloak Board' queen rearing, have put on and just removed Varroa strips the double BB's were a pain in the bum! I love my 14x12's.

 

[BMH]

You might want to consider Dadants before going down that route.
Lots run their outfits on dadant shallows only. It's an interesting system, although quite hard work as you are moving any "brood" frames filled with honey upwards and bring empty "super" frames downwards, . But, I'm told, it is a real honey factory working hives like this.
I was looking at some poly ones recently, looked good and not very expensive.

I'll take a look into it but I've already got my roofs and floors and supers. The old broods will also become supers

Every thing is interchangeable so keen to keep it that way

 

[BMH]

I move totally to 14x12 years ago, but after rearing my own queens I've now got a few double BB's for 'Cloak Board' queen rearing, have put on and just removed Varroa strips the double BB's were a pain in the bum! I love my 14x12's.

Yes I was thinking I would keep a couple of national deeps for rearing queens in my nucs but glad to hear you transitioned and it went well.

what was your reasoning for making the switch?

 

[Beefriendly]

Every thing is interchangeable so keen to keep it that way

That is very understandable. It's why I like double national as a system, you can adjust the space as per queen requirements or beekeeper requirements. It's more modular if you like.

 

[BMH]

I move totally to 14x12 years ago, but after rearing my own queens I've now got a few double BB's for 'Cloak Board' queen rearing, have put on and just removed Varroa strips the double BB's were a pain in the bum! I love my 14x12's.

That is very understandable. It's why I like double national as a system, you can adjust the space as per queen requirements or beekeeper requirements. It's more modular if you like.

I like the system of double nationals but I'm just trying to reduce the inspection time. I dont always go through 20-22 frames but sometimes I do. 14 x 12 would definitely be easier in that respect.

 

[Ian123]

For me 14x12 is only a brood and a half and not big enough for decent/prolific queens as with above mentioned dadants I also use broods as supers and remove honey clogged frames to the supers. 1 guy I helped get set up years ago started dbl broods and then went 14x12.. 2 seasons later he went back to dbl brood as he found them more flexible. Personally I really don’t like 14x12 but that’s just me and how I work my bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I like the system of double nationals but I'm just trying to reduce the inspection time. I dont always go through 20-22 frames but sometimes I do. 14 x 12 would definitely be easier in that respect.

Surely if you have two brood boxes (whatever size) you can just tip the top box to look for queen cells during the swarming season? Thirty seconds per colony?

 

[BMH]

Surely if you have two brood boxes (whatever size) you can just tip the top box to look for queen cells during the swarming season? Thirty seconds per colony?

Yeah I lost a couple of swarms doing that when they hammered the face of the frames.

Also a pain when trying to find the queen for a manipulation

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yeah I lost a couple of swarms doing that when they hammered the face of the frames.

Yes of course you will but if you have hundreds of hives maybe it’s allowable
I’m sure Hivemaker runs his inspections this way

 

[BMH]

Yes of course you will but if you have hundreds of hives maybe it’s allowable
I’m sure Hivemaker runs his inspections this way

I've got 100 hives so minimising the inspection, although nice, isnt the only driver for the change.

I need another 200 supers or 100 brood boxes or 100 14 x 12 boxes (and my broods will become supers).

I often struggle to fill all frames on double brood with bees so was thinking the reduced size might be a better fit.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well I know quite a few commercial keepers like double brood because it’s a doddle to split hives.
Maybe you need Buckfast to fill those double boxes

 

[BMH]

Ah that's a salient point. I don't want to increase beyond 100 but going to 14 x 12 limits my ability to demaree which was quite successful last year.

 

[Ian123]

Tipping the brood works for me fine but reserve it for those times I am pushed only. It’s fine and the rare loss is acceptable. Got to say I ensure all queens are marked but unless making up nucs and splitting a hive am not overly fussed about finding the old girl without good reason

 

[Erichalfbee]

I must admit I like my 14x12s but then I have only five now
If I had my time again I would run medium poly Langs

 

[deemann1]

Just a thought, could you just run dummy frames on the side walls of your double brood which will take away four frames and if you did need the extra space you can take out a dummy accordingly

 

[BMH]

Just a thought, could you just run dummy frames on the side walls of your double brood which will take away four frames and if you did need the extra space you can take out a dummy accordingly

Neat idea.

 

[BMH]

Tipping the brood works for me fine but reserve it for those times I am pushed only. It’s fine and the rare loss is acceptable. Got to say I ensure all queens are marked but unless making up nucs and splitting a hive am not overly fussed about finding the old girl without good reason

Yes I am the same in terms of not needing to see her every visit.

Its when I need to see her and takes 30 minutes trying to find her that winds me up.

Anyway. Decision made. I am sticking to national brood.

I like the flexibility to demaree and it wouldnt be able to do that effectively with 14 x 12.

Plus its a hell of a lot cheaper and I like cheap!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Stan and I successfully Demareed our 14x12s for two years running
We kept the demarees rolling for two months
The trick is to have the colonies in pairs so you can just lift the top brood box off into the hive next door