Brood box terminology

[steve_e]

I'm a bit confused by the different descriptions of more than a single national brood box; if someone could help me out I'd be grateful:

Brood and a half: Is this a normal depth BB + 1 super
Double Brood box: Is this two BBs?
Deep Brood: Would this be same as number 1 or number 2?

And if there are different depths like this, are there frames to fit all the different depths? Would you normally attach two (BB * 2 or BB + super) together permanently?

 

[hedgerow pete]

Or to keep it very simple we could just use one brood box that is 12 by 14 and egnor the others completley

 

[Black Comb]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Normally 14 x 12 but I've seen "normal" b/b's called deep brood.

Frames are exclusive to each box. So in Brood and a half you use brood frames in the b/b and super frames in the super. In double brood each box has "standard" frames. No you don't attach the boxes together but have to inspect both, which is why HP says go for 14 x 12 and you only have one box to bother with.

 

[steve_e]

Thanks Peter/Pete. Um, I should be able to work this out by myself I guess but the 14 x 12 is how deep with reference to the above sizes? brood and a half or double, or something else? And in that case they have dedicated frames?

 

[steve_e]

The main reason for asking Pete, is that I've inadvertently ended up with a brood and a half config, having today discovered capped brood in a super that I left above the single brood box. I was wondering which way to go...

 

[VEG]

Find the queen put a queen excluder over brood box and move queen down into brood box. Unless you want to keep them on brood and a half that is. 14 x 12 have dedicated frames.

 

[Black Comb]

14 x 12 is the frame size of this bigger brood box, as opposed to 14 x 8.5" sized frames for the "standard" brood box. Yes they have dedicated frames. Tho*nes sell them. 14 x 12 is the accepted name for this size of b/box.

 

[richardbees]

steve_e

I'd suggest you do what Veg suggests.....the 12" deep frames are big buggers and you have to buy a different bigger brood box to put them in! imo they're too big for relative beginners to handle.

richard

 

[steve_e]

OK, thanks Richard (and Veg).

 

[oliver90owner]

Reference to super for a brood and a half.

Correctly, it is no longer a 'super' - it is a brood box. Size is shallow National.

Normal rood is a deep National and a 14 x 12 is a jumbo, or extra deep National.

With the 'Rose' OSB system where all the boxes are one size, there will still be broods and supers. Remember, also, there are some on here that super with deeps. We should all perhaps be a little less lax with our terminology.

Regards, RAB

 

[tonybloke]

normal rood is a deep national

we should all perhaps be a little less lax with our terminology.

Regards, rab

lol

 

[DanBee]

I've inadvertently ended up with a brood and a half config

This is the worst state to be in. Not a criticism of you or how you got there, but of brood-and-a-half. To accept it rather than change it is simply inviting frustration; clearly now is too early to change, but it's worth planning now for how you will change it this year.

Brood and a half is a liability because you end up with the brood nest and associated stores split over 22 frames of differing sizes, meaning that you cannot rearrange them flexibly. Here lies the frustration. In any system that uses single-size brood frames, whether one brood box or two, you can flexibly rearrange all of the brood combs. As soon as you are hampered by having 'deep' brood and 'shallow' brood frames, you have artificially limited your options.

There are other issues inherent in having brood and/or pollen in super frames. Plan to get the brood back onto a single size of frame. Whether you decide this is 14x12's, standard deep nationals (14x8.5's), double brood of national deeps, commercial deep, langstroth deep, etc. is almost irrelevant. It could well be the subject of discussions to have with other beekeepers local to you regarding suitability - just move consciously away from brood-and-a-half

 

[DanBee]

Find the queen put a queen excluder over brood box and move queen down into brood box.

Isn't it still a bit early for this? Without seeing the relative proportions and ages of brood, there's a risk that the cluster moves up away from the queen if we have a cold spell soon after QX was added.

 

[oliver90owner]

This is the worst state to be in.

Fact or just opinion?

Some have used the system for many a year and not been 'frustrated', presumably.

Good job we are not all clones.

RAB

 

[steve_e]

I wasn't planning on doing it yet Dan, but thanks for the warning. I just opened it up yesterday for a quick ****, as this colony was one I had been worried about last autumn which seemed to be queenless. Hence I was actually quite gratified to find the brood up in the super, although I'd already guessed that the queen must have been present from the amount of activity and pollen being brought in.

But yes, I'm not keen on the idea of a brood and a half and when it's a little warmer I hope to be sorting it out. The only thing that slightly worries me is whether this is what happened when I 'lost' the queen before - that she's a little bit smaller than the average and had already slipped from the brood box through the QE into the super before I removed it (I didn't check the super, as far as I was concerned it only contained honey I'd left behind for them). If she could do it once she may well do it again, although I suppose putting the shallow brood below the deep brood would encourage her to stay higher?

All in all a useful learning experience though. Last year was my first full year of beekeeping and lots of incidents meant that one error compounded another, which has led to a lovely long list of things to avoid this year!

 

[steve_e]

Wonder why one of my words just changed to an asterisk. Can't remember what it was now, although from context and memory I don't think it was a rude one.

Look, ****, peep, shuftie....

 

[steve_e]

Ah, think of a place a bit like the lake district but beginning with a p! Is that considered a profanity in some parts of the country?

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Ah, think of a place a bit like the lake district but beginning with a p! Is that considered a profanity in some parts of the country?

Think it may also refer to a beehive manufacturer and therefore falling foul of the forum's no advertising rules

 

[steve_e]

Ah - so it does. Thanks MA! Good job there isn't a supplier called **** isn't it? I wouldn't be able to swear...

 

[DanBee]

This is the worst state to be in.

Fact or just opinion?

Fact: Brood and a half is a liability because you end up with the brood nest and associated stores split over 22 frames of differing sizes, meaning that you cannot rearrange them flexibly. Here lies the frustration.

Opinion would be: I don't like 14x12