Brass geared pump?

[BigAshW]

Looking for your thoughts.

I have some Amazon vouchers and I'm considering this bottling machine.

Looks pretty much identical to the one Thorne sell and others I've seen on eBay with the exception of the pump which appears to be made of brass?

The description states that it is food safe but I wanted to check as I wasn't sure about brass fittings in this case.

https://amzn.eu/d/gX0v2K4

 

[pargyle]

The reviews in Amazon look good ... but they all say it has an oily smell when delivered and needs a thorough strip down and clean before being used.

 

[BigAshW]

The reviews in Amazon look good ... but they all say it has an oily smell when delivered and needs a thorough strip down and clean before being used.

Yes would definitely be doing that.

My only worry was the material the pump is made out of. I'm used to food safe being stainless steel or plastic
So was just worried that brass pump wouldn't qualify.

 

[JamezF]

I suspect brass is a problem with honey. Copper alloys are a no-no as far as acidic foods are concerned as far as I'm aware, and honey can be quite acidic.

James

 

[Newbeeneil]

I suspect brass is a problem with honey. Copper alloys are a no-no as far as acidic foods are concerned as far as I'm aware, and honey can be quite acidic.

James

That’s interesting as if your read the description it says that the gears are made of pure copper which I would have thought were much too soft to work well!

 

[BigAshW]

That’s interesting as if your read the description it says that the gears are made of pure copper which I would have thought were much too soft to work well!

I noticed that. It then went on to say brass in all the other sections.

I think I'll give it a miss to be on the safe side and get one with a plastic pump. I've noticed the same unit on eBay for a similar price.

 

[JamezF]

That’s interesting as if your read the description it says that the gears are made of pure copper which I would have thought were much too soft to work well!

Yet elsewhere in the details it says they're brass. The mere fact that the description is inconsistent would stop me buying it because I wouldn't trust anyone who didn't appear to know what they were selling. Either way it could be a problem with honey as I understand it. The unreliability of the description would certainly lead me to question some of the uses they suggest, which may perhaps be allowed in China, but might be considered very dubious in other parts of the world.

It's fair to point out that I don't know for certain that it's an issue with honey. But I went to some lengths to avoid using any copper or brass in my brewing setup because I was told that as wort is acidic it couldn't be considered food safe for that use. That advice may have been wrong, but I couldn't find anyone quoting chapter and verse on why it would be safe and given the price of food grade stainless and how awkward it is to work with, I did look fairly hard.

James

 

[Newbeeneil]

Yet elsewhere in the details it says they're brass. The mere fact that the description is inconsistent would stop me buying it because I wouldn't trust anyone who didn't appear to know what they were selling. Either way it could be a problem with honey as I understand it. The unreliability of the description would certainly lead me to question some of the uses they suggest, which may perhaps be allowed in China, but might be considered very dubious in other parts of the world.

It's fair to point out that I don't know for certain that it's an issue with honey. But I went to some lengths to avoid using any copper or brass in my brewing setup because I was told that as wort is acidic it couldn't be considered food safe for that use. That advice may have been wrong, but I couldn't find anyone quoting chapter and verse on why it would be safe and given the price of food grade stainless and how awkward it is to work with, I did look fairly hard.

James

Certainly a quick online enquiry suggests that copper and acid can be toxic.

 

[Garry R]

Strange that they make great play of the fact that the tubing is stainless and food safe plastic but it then enters the pump body where the food material is in contact with brass gearing and pump casing. It's a shame that there is not a peristaltic pump option for bottling systems but guess that the high viscosity is a problem. Perhaps there is one? A peristaltic pump uses rollers pressing against tubing so no metal to foodstuff contact.

 

[Wilco]

Yet we laud the use of copper pans for jam making.

 

[Garry R]

Yet we laud the use of copper pans for jam making.

Exactly, but I guess for home production and consumption. Factory produced jams for public consumption may be different but I could be proved wrong. Greg Wallace's "Inside the factory" would know!

 

[Newbeeneil]

Yet we laud the use of copper pans for jam making.

A quick internet search will warn you of the dangers when used with acids.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I suspect brass is a problem with honey. Copper alloys are a no-no as far as acidic foods are concerned as far as I'm aware, and honey can be quite acidic.

James

thought the same myself - plus with soft brass and copper gearings I would be worried about small flakes/fragments getting in to the honey

 

[BigAshW]

Strange that they make great play of the fact that the tubing is stainless and food safe plastic but it then enters the pump body where the food material is in contact with brass gearing and pump casing. It's a shame that there is not a peristaltic pump option for bottling systems but guess that the high viscosity is a problem. Perhaps there is one? A peristaltic pump uses rollers pressing against tubing so no metal to foodstuff contact.

They do have a peristaltic pump version but your theory about the viscosity may be correct. It also seems to have a 300g limit.

Automatic Liquid Filling Machine Peristaltic Pump Bottle Filler 2-300g Weighing Filling Machine with 2 Filling Nozzles for Essential Oil, Oral Liquid, Perfume, Nail Polish, Lotion, Glue, Ink https://amzn.eu/d/4Qb8EkV

 

[Garry R]

As you will have noticed the fill rate is about 15sec for 300ml max and the liquids they are pumping are not viscous

 

[Scout]

Yet elsewhere in the details it says they're brass. The mere fact that the description is inconsistent would stop me buying it because I wouldn't trust anyone who didn't appear to know what they were selling. Either way it could be a problem with honey as I understand it. The unreliability of the description would certainly lead me to question some of the uses they suggest, which may perhaps be allowed in China, but might be considered very dubious in other parts of the world.

It's fair to point out that I don't know for certain that it's an issue with honey. But I went to some lengths to avoid using any copper or brass in my brewing setup because I was told that as wort is acidic it couldn't be considered food safe for that use. That advice may have been wrong, but I couldn't find anyone quoting chapter and verse on why it would be safe and given the price of food grade stainless and how awkward it is to work with, I did look fairly hard.

James

There is plenty of copper in breweries. Most of the old vats are copper. Many artisan distilleries use copper to add "character"

 

[Wilco]

A quick internet search will warn you of the dangers when used with acids.

Yes, although jams are acidic.

 

[Scout]

I noticed that. It then went on to say brass in all the other sections.

I think I'll give it a miss to be on the safe side and get one with a plastic pump. I've noticed the same unit on eBay for a similar price.

Have you got a link to one of these?
I deal with dosing and measuring pumps often and would be happy to take a look and give some observations.

 

[Scout]

thought the same myself - plus with soft brass and copper gearings I would be worried about small flakes/fragments getting in to the honey

Brass is tough! It is often used in heavy duty gearing.
Copper on the other hand is soft and never used for anything that is abrasive.

 

[Scout]

They do have a peristaltic pump version but your theory about the viscosity may be correct. It also seems to have a 300g limit.

Automatic Liquid Filling Machine Peristaltic Pump Bottle Filler 2-300g Weighing Filling Machine with 2 Filling Nozzles for Essential Oil, Oral Liquid, Perfume, Nail Polish, Lotion, Glue, Ink https://amzn.eu/d/4Qb8EkV

Having no experience I honey dosing take this for what it is. Observations from someone who has pumped lots of things in many different formats, but never honey.

My thoughts would be that a peristaltic pumps. They will not shear a product like a centrifugal pump would. Another often used is progressive cavity (think a screw inside a tube), though this is for higher flows and pressures.

A peristaltic tubes will perish, but they are usually easily replaced. Check that standard sizes are used and that they appear easy enough to access. These types of pumps are usually very accurate and controllable (though I make no vouch for Chinese qualities).

I did note most if the thorne equipment uses a mitsubishi controller....a good sign of quality. If anyone has one and has photos of the inside of one I would be interested to see.