brace comb

[blackcloud]

Does bottom bee space apply to the void between the brood frames and the floor?
So if the gap is wildly wrong they would propolise/brace this area or not?

I have inherited a colonised hive,home-made to absolutely no known dimensional standards.
Obviously nothing is happening until the weather improves, but if the bees are to stay in there it may need serious modification, so I need to know what to expect before I start dismantling it.
Even if I move them to a proper hive,I dont know what frames they are on so I need to be prepared for as much of the unexpected as possible...

 

[For want of a better word]

Interesting.... generally if the frames are flush with the top of the box... be it a brood or a super... one would expect bottom spacing......

But then don't ask me I am not a Master Beekeeper.. or ever likely to become one!

Look it up on the Dave Cushman web page...

 

[Murox]

Does bottom bee space apply to the void between the brood frames and the floor?

That void can be quite big, think about where colonies have built in between house walls etc, the bottom of the comb may be many inches above the "floor".

Bee space, top or bottom usually refers to the optimum gap that bees need to move past each other and of course the gap we need to stop squashing bees in-between boxes of frames etc etc.

 

[blackcloud]

Thanks guys
My worry is that if I try to pull the frames out they might be stuck with architecture of either kind and severely damage the brood .
Maybe a Bailey type change would allow me to get the boxes into the workshop and standardise it?

 

[Swarm]

British Standard Modified National boxes are designed as bottom bee space. As it suggests, the bee space is bellow the frames. Top bee space hives have the space above the frames.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

even top bee space hives will have a space (usually bee space) below the frame bottom bars, Bottom Beespace hives on ordinary floor (solid or OMF) will usually have more than a beespace below, some have quite a bit - as long as the frames are correctly spaced, the bees will usually just extend downwards but still leave a beespace gap so the comb shouldn't be fixed to the floor (same goes for the sides)

 

[alfazer]

The extra depth between floor and bottom of frame is normal. It's also useful when they build queen cells hanging off the bottom.

 

[Poly Hive]

I have taken apart a colony which had not been inspected for 15 years.

In essence, they respected the bee space.... after all it's there for THEIR usage.

Bailey... oh please.

Do the right thing and put a proper BB on top using a bit of ply as an adaptor and after the queen is up and laying put in an excluder. After a few days check to see there are eggs up there and 24 days later remove. Simple

KISS

PH

 

[Millet]

I have noticed mine building drone brood on the bottom bars down to the floor but they never stick it to the floor..

 

[Poly Hive]

My early poly floors had a 9" square hole and the mesh was fixed under this. The bees used it to build drone comb on the bottom bars, but the bee space was respected so that on pulling the combs the drone brood if wanted could be culled.

Bee space is so called for a very good reason.

PH

 

[blackcloud]

That's the solution -so obvious that I couldn't see it
It does however take all the enjoyment out of doing things the hard way......

So once the Qe is in place I can set up a national floor alongside (3'rule? )and transfer the new BB over?
Can this be immediately?
If there are Standard shallow or deep frames in the existing brood box I put these into another layer on top?
Of course they could be jumbo frames for which I'd have currently no work around.

 

[blackcloud]

Got the 24days bit thanks

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's the solution -so obvious that I couldn't see it
It does however take all the enjoyment out of doing things the hard way......

So once the Qe is in place I can set up a national floor alongside (3'rule? )and transfer the new BB over?
Can this be immediately?
If there are Standard shallow or deep frames in the existing brood box I put these into another layer on top?
Of course they could be jumbo frames for which I'd have currently no work around.

I'm lost at what you plan to do. Why on earth do you want to do a Bailey change when you don't even know whether you need to.
Waaaay to early to think about doing a Bailey now in any case.
If the current frames aren't DN frames, then yes, Bailey change is an option
If they are National deeps, then you can just put them in the new box
Again, way too early to start thinking about faffing around with the bees - wait until the spring when the bees are properly active and an inspecion is due

 

[Wingy]

As said bees don’t normally build brace comb to the floor but where I have experienced “bee space” issues is between super frames and double brood frames where the bees weld together with brace comb the bottom of one frame to the top of the frame below. I was using frames from different manufacturers and later realised it affected the space as the frames sat differently in the boxes. Mine are Langstroth so top bee space

 

[Millet]

As said bees don’t normally build brace comb to the floor but where I have experienced “bee space” issues is between super frames and double brood frames where the bees weld together with brace comb the bottom of one frame to the top of the frame below. I was using frames from different manufacturers and later realised it affected the space as the frames sat differently in the boxes. Mine are Langstroth so top bee space

That happens pretty regular to my colonies and the boxes and frames are all the same... that is the reason i never try to lift to top box of in one go..

 

[philipm]

I always give the box a bit of a twist whilst lifting to break any brace comb,This avoids lifting any frames from the box below.Best way to upset the bees by rolling them in the box below the one your lifting.

 

[blackcloud]

I'm lost at what you plan to do. Why on earth do you want to do a Bailey change when you don't even know whether you need to.
Waaaay to early to think about doing a Bailey now in any case.
If the current frames aren't DN frames, then yes, Bailey change is an option
If they are National deeps, then you can just put them in the new box
Again, way too early to start thinking about faffing around with the bees - wait until the spring when the bees are properly active and an inspecion is due

In the OP
Obviously nothing is happening until the weather improves,
But anyway thanks for the other advice,taken on board gratefully.

 

[Millet]

In the OP
Obviously nothing is happening until the weather improves,
But anyway thanks for the other advice,taken on board gratefully.

Maybe measure the brood box and take a picture and fire it up on here..folk might be able to tell you better what type of hive you are using..

 

[Curly green fingers]

I always give the box a bit of a twist whilst lifting to break any brace comb,This avoids lifting any frames from the box below.Best way to upset the bees by rolling them in the box below the one your lifting.

I do this also it does help, last year I did inspection's on a friend's hive's while they were on holiday the first hive had one frame missing in the brood box and the super frames hadn't been put together properly sagging foundation what a mess it took me about half hour to sort it out , and I sent a not so nice a txt to them alas I now have there bees....