Bickerstaff

[farbee]

Has anybody used Bickerstaff Buckfast queens?

They seem alot cheaper than other but are they poorer quality than others?

 

[madasafish]

I bought one two years ago. The hive was strong and well fed going into winter and survived well until spring.

The queen died in the winter.

I have bought no more from them.

 

[Chris B]

Yes. When they're good they're very good. I've also had some right duffers.

 

[Tom Bick]

I have had queens from them and when I got a bad queen they pulled every trick so as not to replace or refund and will not go back for this very reason but on the other queens they have performed well. I also know of others that have bought from them and they rate them 50/50.

 

[masterBK]

A friend of mine bought 30 a couple of years ago. They were fine at first but many got superseded within weeks and one turned into a drone layer after laying OK for a month. he emailed them photos of the queen and her duff brood and they sent a replacement without any hassle. The colonies of these queens did not winter too well so maybe this is not part of their selection process. Why bring in queens from Greece anyway no matter how cheap. Rear your own or get together with other beekeepers to produce home grown locally adapted queens. Importing from other countries also risks bringing in pests like hive beetle as well as affecting the genome of the local bees.

 

[Arfermo]

A friend of mine bought 30 a couple of years ago. They were fine at first but many got superseded within weeks and one turned into a drone layer after laying OK for a month. he emailed them photos of the queen and her duff brood and they sent a replacement without any hassle. The colonies of these queens did not winter too well so maybe this is not part of their selection process. Why bring in queens from Greece anyway no matter how cheap. Rear your own or get together with other beekeepers to produce home grown locally adapted queens. Importing from other countries also risks bringing in pests like hive beetle as well as affecting the genome of the local bees.

Local mongrels best as they are acclimatised. Dead against foreign imports for numerous reasons. Pal of mine was importing batches of 8 from somewhere north of Turin on the assumtion that having been at altitude and therefore cold from birth they would do well here in our winters. Guess what !!!!

 

[Swarm]

About time British beekeepers worked for the common good, all these imports do is add to the mixing pot. We should be working together but I can't see that happening.

 

[Poly Hive]

Ah the common good....

And that would be?

PH

 

[farbee]

Thanks for replies. It appears as so often you get what you pay for.

As a newcomer I am not totally confident in raising good queens yet and as my bees are on a school site I feel that requeening is the best way to ensure gentle stock. I fear that raising queen will always be hit and miss and angry colonies are more likely as it is impossible to control the drones that are doing the mating.

 

[Swarm]

Ah the common good....

And that would be?

PH

I'm sure you could think of some desirable traits, that may be a good place to start.

 

[madasafish]

The BBKA are against imports so you would logically think they would support BIBBA.. with marketing and cash.

Ooops...

Edit

the native bees here run on combs ,follow and sting like mad.. So anyone who supports them is mad as well.

 

[theengraver]

You get what you pay for british queens may be a few ££s more. The problem with imported queen it all down to money the more they send over the more they make. Queens should be left in the mating nucs for a minimum of 4 weeks after mating. With the cost of running mating nucs the tempation for many is to get them turned around as soon as they can also the quality of breeding stock is a major factor.

the only way to breed quality Queens to satify the uk market is to play the long game.
and invest large amounts of money in to it thats what has been lacking in the last 20 years in the uk and thats why we import 35,000 + Queens every year.

Also a lot of queen breeders and seller here in the UK get greedy after a while and go for the easy option of importing queens but forget to mention to there customers there no longer breed in this country and carry on selling imported queens as there own.

This year i have invested in another 1000 mating nucs for next season and thats when you see costs sky rocket not only the cost of the nucs but stocking them with bees runs in to the 10s of thousands.
and with a summer like the one we have just had thats why you must play the long game some years you will make a loss and others you will make a profit fingers crossed over the years you will end on a positive.

 

[Into the lions den]

About time British beekeepers worked for the common good, all these imports do is add to the mixing pot. We should be working together but I can't see that happening.

As PH indicates with his question, there is no concensus as to what is wanted. Yes there are a lot of vociferous people who make holier than though comments about breeding local stock, and some of those ask, in whispered tones, if they can get any queens from me (the NZ carnies). A lot of 'psssst, round the back of the bike sheds for cash' stuff going on.

Breeding all we need in the UK is a pipedream. Nice idea, sounds great, has all the right principles behind it. Trouble is it does not work. Main reason for that is the weather.

Complain about bad imported stock? Look at your own before chucking rocks. My own stock this year will be utter rubbish. We did our best, grafted from the top dogs, raised well over 2000 virgins, got maybe 60% mated, but some of those took 7 weeks, and at least a third of the remaining new queens have either superceded already or are in the process of attempting it even now. The 2011 queens, many of which are now going to have to carry the colony through the winter are themselves a poor lot after the bad matings of last summer too, when in some areas we had a 70% failure rate. Winter carnage likely to ensue.

Bad queens are *at least* as likely to come from the UK as from reputable breeders abroad. Note the 'reputable'. There are good and bad in every trade. I have no direct personal experience of the Bickerstaff product, but have heard from satisfied buyers, albeit in southern Britain only. Greek experience here is only with Batsis product, and none of their lines were suited to eastern Scotland. UK breeders, like Hivemaker on here cannot even contemplate filling the UK queen market

SHB? If you really think about small hive beetle you have to wonder if this is a real scare, or a convenient anti bee import scare, or a bit of both. Nowhere in the world has SHB successfully established at these latitudes, and the lower soil temperatures, their ph, and their regular wetness, are all bars to pupation, and thus contra indicators for SHB becoming anything other than a minor problem, and probably not a species that can survive here except with the possible exception of London and the extreme SE.

Thinking about it further we are missing the main vector when talking of bee bans, as the usual mode of inadvertant introduction is on South African origin fruit, vegetables, and bundled herbs. It is a native species there and is frequently found on such goods. The UK has been the main market for South African products for at least 150 years, and in the 80's the fact we took so much of it was a source of considerable pride to the UK government of the day. Are we supposed to think that a pest that travels on these products, and has moved around the world on them to other places, and stayed alive, has never been in the UK before? We were after all, for quite some time, the market for the vast majority of their product. The chances are that it has, probably on multiple occasions, but no-one was bothered or even giving it any thought. ( I worked on fruit ships, and all manner of things were on the cargo, including on one accasion thousands of Colorado beetles.) Are we to ban South African fruit/veg/herb imports? It is the most likely vector after all.

 

[Into the lions den]

Queens should be left in the mating nucs for a minimum of 4 weeks after mating.

Why? They do every bit as well if we harvest them as soon as they have a proper pattern of laying.

 

[theengraver]

Why? They do every bit as well if we harvest them as soon as they have a proper pattern of laying.

If queens are left in the nucs for 4 or more weeks you will find that queens likely to be superceded nerver reach main hives and can be discarded before some beekeeper lays out his or her`s hard earned money only to find its been flushed down the drain.

Also your right the weather is against queen rearing in the UK and imports will never stop but if we follow those thoughts we might as well give up and roll over and call it a day! But it can work if you invest the time and money in to it if you dont see it as a get rich quick or even making large amounts of money from it you can make it work and if enough people make it work a little adds up to a lot. all i need is to pay my bills eat meat a couple of times a week and im happy

 

[alanf]

with a summer like the one we have just had thats why you must play the long game some years you will make a loss and others you will make a profit fingers crossed over the years you will end on a positive.

I would like to see locally selected and bred queens. Good luck to anyone who thinks it's worth a go. However a commercial breeder on any scale in this country is always going to be up against basic agricultural economics.

That is, there will continue to be years when the weather patterns mean well mated queens are in short supply. Prices would rise but if imports are cheaper, you won't sell the few you have. In a favourable year, everyone or their neighbour rears their own. You can't sell the many you have for a return that covers your costs. When imports are not restricted, the normal supply and demand doesn't work for the breeder who is relying on the same conditions as the customers.

Result is that any supplier has to diversify into honey production, other bee supplies or some other line because a specialist queen breeder in the uk for the local market is not going to see stable income. Small, diversified suppliers maybe, local co-operatives maybe. I just can't see a larger specialist operating within the cashflow constraints.

 

[theengraver]

Basic economics is why you have to play the long game in this business
This country went down the route of "we can save a £ on imports and have it now let stop doing it in this country" look at the mess were in now. in every area of business we need to keep grinding on at least try

and remember if the most important thing to me it is

"It`s not always about how much money can I make out of this"

 

[Into the lions den]

If queens are left in the nucs for 4 or more weeks you will find that queens likely to be superceded nerver reach main hives and can be discarded before some beekeeper lays out his or her`s hard earned money only to find its been flushed down the drain.

Some will be found out, yes, but this year the queens are failing in August and September...................in many cases 8 to 12 weeks after producing an excellent and vigorous worker pattern. Many more will collapse between now and April. They just do not encounter the pressure in a mating nuc that finds the lesser stock out.

We need our queens harvested, introduced, and established by mid June, late June at a stretch if it is a split for eventual re uniting. Got to be settled in time for the heather move. Go back four weeks from mid June, then you need them mated and laying by mid May. Some years we are lucky to have enough mature drones by then, never mind a weather window.

 

[mbc]

Result is that any supplier has to diversify into honey production, other bee supplies or some other line because a specialist queen breeder in the uk for the local market is not going to see stable income. Small, diversified suppliers maybe, local co-operatives maybe. I just can't see a larger specialist operating within the cashflow constraints.

By definition a bee breeder must diversify into honey production as how else will they select from their best producing colonies ?

 

[mbc]

Why? They do every bit as well if we harvest them as soon as they have a proper pattern of laying.

I seem to remember reading some Australian research which pretty conclusively found queens left for a length of time (IIRC 3 weeks after mating - I'll see how my google foo is working and try and dig out a linky) had a much better chance of being accepted.