Bickerstaff

[Bates]

The problems in 2011 and 12 are nothing to do with genetics OR with raising malnourished scrubby queens.

They are all to do with having to wait up to 7 weeks for mating. I dont care how good you are at doing the raising, if you dont get the weather you are peeing against the wind.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I think you are just being a bit tongue in cheek!

You are of course free to think whatever you like.

 

[Lorenz]

Every year my local BKA collects samples and looks for nosema and acarine. We always find some nosema, but for the last 6 years we have found no acarine. I was wondering why, but thinking about the fact that we put thymol on every autumn and also sometimes treat with thymol if there are broodless times in the season too, perhaps it is the thymol seeing off the acarine mites too.

 

[DanBee]

The accepted view these days resulting from the research of Dr L Bailey is that it wasn't the mite that was responsible for the huge losses associated with the "so called" IOW disease but the chronic paralysis virus. The mite merely shortens the life of a bee with no obvious signs other than that.

Yes, and furthermore Bailey casts doubt on how many of the native* bees were wiped out, reports at the time varying from "virtually all of them" to "virtually none of them". Some pertinent observations regarding overstocking (vs. disease incidence and nutrition), two extraordinarily wet/cold (I forget) winters, and the willingness of beekeepers to blame a fashionable "collapse disorder" rather than question their own methods and diligence. It's all in a lengthy chapter/appendix at the end of Honeybee Pathology, including the circumstantial evidence regarding CBPV.

* imports from Europe started in the 1870's, IOWD raged/whimpered between 1904 - 1916, IIRC.

 

[DanBee]

thats why we import 35,000 + Queens every year.

Where does that figure come from? Beebase currently shows England/Wales totalling 590 from outside the EU and 5728 from within the EU, largely in line with previous years' import figures.

 

[DanBee]

If queens are left in the nucs for 4 or more weeks you will find that queens likely to be superceded nerver reach main hives and can be discarded before some beekeeper lays out his or her`s hard earned money only to find its been flushed down the drain.

Possibly there's some crossed wires regarding the terminology of "nucs" here; I wouldn't attempt to keep young laying queens in mini nucs (e.g Apideas) for 4 weeks, whereas I'd expect to move them almost immediately into 3-5 frame nucs for proving for at least a full brood cycle, roughly mirroring your 4 weeks.

 

[mbc]

Yes, and furthermore Bailey casts doubt on how many of the native* bees were wiped out, reports at the time varying from "virtually all of them" to "virtually none of them". Some pertinent observations regarding overstocking (vs. disease incidence and nutrition), two extraordinarily wet/cold (I forget) winters, and the willingness of beekeepers to blame a fashionable "collapse disorder" rather than question their own methods and diligence. It's all in a lengthy chapter/appendix at the end of Honeybee Pathology, including the circumstantial evidence regarding CBPV.

* imports from Europe started in the 1870's, IOWD raged/whimpered between 1904 - 1916, IIRC.

I dont have contemporary written evidence, but since I started beekeeping I've always listened to the older beekeepers and their tales and IofW never features in the local memories and neither does buying queens, nucs or full colonies and some of these stories go back to the beggining of the 20th century and skep beekeeping, one chap remembers his father helping tend over 40 skeps in a yard on the hafod estate, cwm ystwyth - an area that would struggle to keep a single hive going without supplementary feeding these days !
IofW wiping out natives my arse ! its simply a case of home counties, double barrelled name authors writing history to suit their personal agenda's.

 

[Poly Hive]

The story that "all" the native bees were wiped out just does not hold water if you give it more than five seconds thought. Especially in the more remote areas.

Which of course is anywhere north/west/east of Watford Gap.....

PH

 

[DanBee]

Bailey had the same problem finding 1st hand accounts in the 1950's... IIRC he found none still alive who had kept bees through that period.

Clearly IoW / Acarine / CBPV / 1904-16 CCD did not wipe out all of the Amm stocks. What cannot be denied is that it resulted in greatly increased imports and hence the dilution/crossing/replacement of 'native' stocks; you could take the view that Amm was significantly displaced as a consequence of IoW etc.

Remember also that until the arrival of Varroa into the US in the 1980's, Tracheal Mite (i.e. Acarine) was seen as the no. 1 bee health problem there, and this was in stocks that were largely Ligustica-derived; Ligustica reportedly having greater resilience towards Acarine than Mellifera, which was noted as being more susceptible than other races.

We would be well advised not to put any particular race of bee on a pedastal, but to evaluate the suitability objectively against the current environment and the needs/desires of the beekeeper

 

[REDWOOD]

i was to believe that the IOWD killed off most if not all the bees in the UK, the invasion of the mite started in the IOW and swept it's way through the UK. The mite blocked the breathing tubes of native British bees as the tubes are smaller than of our European counterparts. Bees where imported from Europe to replace the losses and brother Adam searched the world for different strains of bees that he could breed to create a bee that was resistant to the mite.
Correct me If i'm wrong but I have not read anything to challenge this but would be more than welcome to read it
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The accepted view these days resulting from the research of Dr L Bailey is that it wasn't the mite that was responsible for the huge losses associated with the "so called" IOW disease but the chronic paralysis virus. The mite merely shortens the life of a bee with no obvious signs other than that.

I have just finished reading the study of the IOWD 1920 http://archive.org/stream/cu31924003692633#page/n0/mode/1up
There where some colonies that was unaffected by it and all infected did have crawling bees like CPV but no signs of shacking was mentioned that is common with CPV

 

[mbc]

The story that "all" the native bees were wiped out just does not hold water if you give it more than five seconds thought. Especially in the more remote areas.

Which of course is anywhere north/west/east of Watford Gap.....

PH

Another myth busted and a whole pile of authers discredited right there

 

[REDWOOD]

now after some considerable reading, why do people publish so much rubbish without facts to back up their theory's. also I find interesting that it was not just our bees that suffered but also imported Italian bees suffered as well but some of our bees although had the IOWD did not die

 

[DanBee]

I have just finished reading the study of the IOWD 1920 http://archive.org/stream/cu31924003692633#page/n0/mode/1up
There where some colonies that was unaffected by it and all infected did have crawling bees like CPV but no signs of shacking was mentioned that is common with CPV

Two syndromes of CBPV: type one involves trembling and clustering on grass, type two does not (significantly). The latter were known for many years as "little black robbers" due to their appearance and the aggressive reaction towards them of their sisters.

 

[Norton]

Hello,
Experience here has shown that there is a huge difference in queen quality and operation costs when comparisions are made between queen mated in mini nucs and those mated in say 5 frame Langstroth nucs. The queens need to be able to lay freely for about a month without being disturbed too much and the modus operandi of pulling queens as soon as they have laid a few eggs is really bad. Batsis operates mainly with mini nucs and inexperienced/indifferent foreign workers.

Re-ligustica: It is only the bright yellow strains that are susceptible to acarine. The original resistant Buckfast cross was leather coloured italians crossed with AMM.

 

[rook66]

"The product is from Batsis,imported by Bickerstaffes"

This is the origin of the Greek Buckfast's being sold on by dealers in UK with a nice mark up.
[

 

[Into the lions den]

Hello,
Experience here has shown that there is a huge difference in queen quality and operation costs when comparisions are made between queen mated in mini nucs and those mated in say 5 frame Langstroth nucs. The queens need to be able to lay freely for about a month without being disturbed too much and the modus operandi of pulling queens as soon as they have laid a few eggs is really bad.

I hear what you say Roger, and will not argue with it, but really, we do not actually find much difference in acceptance and performance between the 'used right away' ones, and the 'used much later' ones. However, the majority of our queens are actually mated in the unit they will go on to head, and we probably only harvest two or three hundred from mating boxes most years to them introduce to our own colonies.

How bad is 'really bad'? Can you add more to this, as I my observations do not give it huge support...............and to be honest (given the same provenence) I would sooner have an 85% introduction success rate, roughly what we get, of 15 pound queens than a 95% rate with 30 pound queens, which we have never had anyway, with any queens bar one lot of Kona carnies several years back that were the only 100% success rate ever enjoyed.

A secondary factor here too...........with heather moves starting in early July, and first possible run of mated queens mid may.............doing it that way means only ONE queen per year per box. Not enough to justify the effort of setting everything up. Queens after mid July are of no use to us as the dark bees just kill them on introduction in a heather setting.

 

[Scutellator]

Oh, the elephant and the blind man.

I've been using 3-5 shallow frame langstroht nucs, 3 and 4 1/2 langstroth, and full sized langtroth frames over the years. I've been collecting the queens at 2, 3 and 4 week intervals. Each successive year the nucs got bigger and at the moment i use 6 frame full depth langstroths ( although some of the queens need 8- framed nucs) and the queens are collected at the 5th week. WHY? The bigger nucs are more cost effective to me.

I find our local bees to be less demanding to the conditions in wich the queen is raised - even the emergency queens caged and introduced as soon as the commence to lay are often as good as the ones raised with the greatest care. Not so with the italians.

Personaly i prefer to pay some extra cost in the queen rearing procees and get the highest quality i could, instead spending much more latter.
I would pay four time the price of the queen, if she could get me two times more honey. I think that way.

 

[Into the lions den]

I would pay four time the price of the queen, if she could get me two times more honey. I think that way.

Of course...................I am talking about when all else is broadly equal. I would not use unsuitable stock even if it was free

 

[Ely]

Can't you ask around at you assosiation, or even on here? Someone must have a gentle queen closer to home