Best bees for next year?

[johnandyrob]

Am I missing some thing how about my bees may be angry but if you had your house pull apart each week you would be pretty upset !!!! And then some bu**er nicking your hard earned nectar?

Yes I think you are missing some thing. There is a difference is between being a bit tetchy now and then and being out and out aggressive all the time. People in this country put up with far more aggression following and other undesirable traits than other countries.
When I decided I wanted local bees but some with a nicer temperament than mine and was shocked at just what people thought was acceptable.
I know other countries have better weather but when they can go through a hive with no veil in shorts and tea-shirts it says some thing about our bees. They would not even entertain the level of aggression we do they would simply cull the queens.

 

[wood blewit]

Hey Guys, spotted this thread on the forum and being a first season beekeeper thought great because i know i need to requeen one of my hives this spring and was really not sure which breed of queen was gonna be the best and i was kinda sure id find the answer on this topic but after reading all posts and side threads im still not clear at what your findings were as to the best queen ,,, is it just stay with what other local beeks are into ?????? or Not ???

 

[johnandyrob]

Hey Guys, spotted this thread on the forum and being a first season beekeeper thought great because i know i need to requeen one of my hives this spring and was really not sure which breed of queen was gonna be the best and i was kinda sure id find the answer on this topic but after reading all posts and side threads im still not clear at what your findings were as to the best queen ,,, is it just stay with what other local beeks are into ?????? or Not ???

May be if you can find a locally adapted queen with good traits why look any further. Unfortunately after several years of looking I cant find a local queen as a basis to start selecting better queens from. So may have to look else where.

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

When we hadour first hive the AMM we bought were nice calm friendly bees an inspector saw them and remarked how nice they were to work with 18mts down the line the hive in its second year and they are little BUG***'s so its hard to kmow whats for the best.

We also collected a swarm of Italians and they are calm and nice to work with but who knows.

 

[Stiffy]

When we hadour first hive the AMM we bought were nice calm friendly bees an inspector saw them and remarked how nice they were to work with 18mts down the line the hive in its second year and they are little BUG***'s so its hard to kmow whats for the best.

We also collected a swarm of Italians and they are calm and nice to work with but who knows.

I also had AMM (still have 1) and for the first year no problems but the second year were horrid.
A lot of the time its not until the bees have reached 'full hive potential' that their real temperament comes out.
S

 

[keith pierce]

How long you can keep the temperment right is in the hand of your neighbours. All bees are lovely and quiet in their pure form. Even for me after many years of selective breeding and fooding the area with my drones i still get the odd aggressive hive. Last year i only had 2 out of about 60 colonies that were agressive and these were split down into nucs and requeened before they had a chance to produce any drones. Even with requeening, i still dont like working them as it still takes a couple of months to quieten down. I suppose i am lucky as every thing around me for a long distance is amm. If as you say you have 23 colonies and only 1 amm, they are going to go down hill

 

[Stiffy]

How long you can keep the temperment right is in the hand of your neighbours. All bees are lovely and quiet in their pure form. Even for me after many years of selective breeding and fooding the area with my drones i still get the odd aggressive hive. Last year i only had 2 out of about 60 colonies that were agressive and these were split down into nucs and requeened before they had a chance to produce any drones. Even with requeening, i still dont like working them as it still takes a couple of months to quieten down. I suppose i am lucky as every thing around me for a long distance is amm. If as you say you have 23 colonies and only 1 amm, they are going to go down hill

With three out apiaries and regular introduction of stock from the original queen breeder my own bred queens should be good for a couple of crosses before succumbing to the bad traits of local bees. Anything nasty is re-queened very quickly
S
S


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[For want of a better word]

With three out apiaries and regular introduction of stock from the original queen breeder my own bred queens should be good for a couple of crosses before succumbing to the bad traits of local bees. Anything nasty is re-queened very quickly
S
S


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regular introduction of stock from the original queen breeder
There dare I say is the "Nub of the Problem"... constant introduction of foreign queens will introduce foreign drones into the local area causing aggressive traits in the crosses that will occur within the endemic population... pity your poor neighbours!

Wouldn't it be better if beekeepers worked together... as my grandfather would have said... all it takes is one rotten apple !

 

[Hivemaker.]

Wouldn't it be better if beekeepers worked together...

I agree, i usually work with a couple of my sons,makes things so much easier.

 

[PBee]

How long you can keep the temperment right is in the hand of your neighbours. All bees are lovely and quiet in their pure form. Even for me after many years of selective breeding and fooding the area with my drones i still get the odd aggressive hive. Last year i only had 2 out of about 60 colonies that were agressive and these were split down into nucs and requeened before they had a chance to produce any drones. Even with requeening, i still dont like working them as it still takes a couple of months to quieten down. I suppose i am lucky as every thing around me for a long distance is amm. If as you say you have 23 colonies and only 1 amm, they are going to go down hill

All the terms used to describe docility here are relative terms. There is no recognised scoring system/descriptive scale which would allow any meaningful comparison.
Yesterday I went through 20 hives (Buckfast Queens) in the home apiary checking stores etc which involved a quick look at all frames in the brood boxes. I had no veil, gloves or smoker and the kids were playing in the background. That to me is docile and if I had been able to find any Amm stock even remotely approaching this in the past I would have them now.
Amm in my experience are at best defensive and at worst aggressive but never what I would regard as docile.

 

[BILL.HEARD]

I agree, i usually work with a couple of my sons,makes things so much easier.

 

[Stiffy]

regular introduction of stock from the original queen breeder
There dare I say is the "Nub of the Problem"... constant introduction of foreign queens will introduce foreign drones into the local area causing aggressive traits in the crosses that will occur within the endemic population... pity your poor neighbours!

Wouldn't it be better if beekeepers worked together... as my grandfather would have said... all it takes is one rotten apple !

I know you have suddenly become an AMM zealot but would you really advocate keeping bad bees just to please my neighbours as that's what you seem to be advocating, also how do you know they don't also have Buckfast strain?

If you ran a poll, you would find a large proportion keep Buckfast others have local mongrels, carnies etc and an even smaller number keep so called AMM. I keep good Buckfast from a well respected breeder , should I change to local or try again to keep horrid AMM bees, I don't think so!
I would also like some proof and not just anecdotal twaddle that a gentle stock adversely affects other strains.

S



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[Norton]

I would also like some proof and not just anecdotal twaddle that a gentle stock adversely affects other strains.

Yes so would I.

 

[For want of a better word]

I know you have suddenly become an AMM zealot but would you really advocate keeping bad bees just to please my neighbours as that's what you seem to be advocating, also how do you know they don't also have Buckfast strain?

If you ran a poll, you would find a large proportion keep Buckfast others have local mongrels, carnies etc and an even smaller number keep so called AMM. I keep good Buckfast from a well respected breeder , should I change to local or try again to keep horrid AMM bees, I don't think so!
I would also like some proof and not just anecdotal twaddle that a gentle stock adversely affects other strains.

S


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.... obviously no mileage left in this tread when rational discussion degrades to kicking the player and not the ball as ADMIN would say !

I am not an AMM Zealot...... I attempt to maintain a particular strain of bee within each apiary... I am fully aware of the other types of bees within my bee catchment area...... the only problem with nasty temperament has been within my Carniolians.

I wanted to bring to the discussion that there is a probability that nasty temperament in bees may occur if a pure strain, such as Amms is crossed with another pure strain of bee..... Carnica, Linguista....

I would have thought that introducing a muddled cross, such as Buckfast type, into an area that is predominantly of one pure strain may produce the nasty temperament that has been noticed, within the pure strain.

The OP must look to the local area and othe local beekeepers in deciding the type of bee to keep.

But if your bees begin to look like the picture below.... WORRY !!

View attachment 7431

 

[madasafish]

I watch videos of German children examining hives with no protective clothing and no veils.

That is how beekeeping should be done.

Any bee strain that requires the use of leather gloves is totally unsuited for hobby beekeeping .

If I have to explain my reasoning to anyone, I assume they are a lover of pain and degradation . There are clubs for that kind of inclination

 

[Stiffy]

.... obviously no mileage left in this tread when rational discussion degrades to kicking the player and not the ball as ADMIN would say !

I am not an AMM Zealot...... I attempt to maintain a particular strain of bee within each apiary... I am fully aware of the other types of bees within my bee catchment area...... the only problem with nasty temperament has been within my Carniolians.

I wanted to bring to the discussion that there is a probability that nasty temperament in bees may occur if a pure strain, such as Amms is crossed with another pure strain of bee..... Carnica, Linguista....

I would have thought that introducing a muddled cross, such as Buckfast type, into an area that is predominantly of one pure strain may produce the nasty temperament that has been noticed, within the pure strain.

The OP must look to the local area and othe local beekeepers in deciding the type of bee to keep.

But if your bees begin to look like the picture below.... WORRY !!

View attachment 7431

"obviously no mileage left in this tread when rational discussion degrades to kicking the player and not the ball as ADMIN would say !"




I am sorry if you feel you where attacked but maybe read what you put down before posting.

"I am not an AMM Zealot...... I attempt to maintain a particular strain of bee within each apiary... I am fully aware of the other types of bees within my bee catchment area...... the only problem with nasty temperament has been within my Carniolians"

just look at previous posts on how wonderful your so called AMM are and as for kicking the ball as Admin would say, how about calling someone a bad apple and glad you are not my neighbour........?

"I would have thought that introducing a muddled cross, such as Buckfast type, into an area that is predominantly of one pure strain may produce the nasty temperament that has been noticed, within the pure strain."

And the reasoning behind your thought is what? Maybe that a particular breeder suddenly gets a couple of queens producing nasty bees and is looking for someone to blame ?

For info:
Buckfast strain are not a 'muddled cross' if properly bred but when done correctly are a mix of many types of bee such as developed by Brother Adam to the point where he got the qualities he desired.

The good breeders of Buckfast today still try and maintain these standards and do mix in other strains of bees to get the qualities they want. I do not see how this can affect the local bees other than to instill some good qualities into the local mix, surely succesive inbreeding is not good for any strain......
If the bees have stripey, blue, black or bright yellow abdomens but are gentle, productive and a pleasure to keep surely this is better than contiually breeding a bee that is black and has a funny wing but is out to kill, the first chance it gets?
Again my appologies if you felt or feel attacked
S

 

[PBee]

I watch videos of German children examining hives with no protective clothing and no veils.

That is how beekeeping should be done.

Any bee strain that requires the use of leather gloves is totally unsuited for hobby beekeeping .

If I have to explain my reasoning to anyone, I assume they are a lover of pain and degradation . There are clubs for that kind of inclination

Hey! ..... I agree with Madasafish about something .......

 

[madasafish]

Hey! ..... I agree with Madasafish about something .......

Sanity and reason will out - eventually .

 

[For want of a better word]

Sanity and reason will out - eventually .

But it seems there are some insane beekeepers !

 

[keith pierce]

I watch videos of German children examining hives with no protective clothing and no veils.

Any beekeeper that lets their kids handle bees without protective clothing
is a .............................parent. I will let you fill the in the missing words yourselves.