Best bees for next year?

[johnandyrob]

Absolutely not, till you have found out what are other beekeepers are keeping around you. What I can positively tell you, is that Buckfast / apis meliffera meliffera crosses are just about capable of bursting the tyres of your car and you beekeeping won't be a happy experience. All bees are capable of going bad at some time or other, but this cross is a guaranted recipe for aggression. So find out what your neighbours have and stick with the locals.

Iv spent a great deal of time talking to local beekeepers from several local associations ( I live in an area where several converge) and still haven't found a local bee that isn't aggressive doesn't follow and produces honey and isn't swarmy. Should I stick with them? Its amazing that people in this country put up with nasty bees and think its normal.

And if they have nasty stingy unproductive bees...you keep in with them, and get the same.

Thats what Iv done so far and Im sure there must be some thing better some where else. This isn't just the grass is greener its just sick and tired of grotty bees.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Get Italians, gentle and not had a problem with them to date.

i used to think that but in my current main apiary any Italian crosses are " off the wall!" i have had to culled several in the last three years and requeen with buckfasts....the italians were from various sources ( Hawaii, New zealand and UK Xss, no problem at all with second or third generation buckfasts ( even the cyprus type).....4 miles away, no problem with Italians

you cannot generalise that a strain of bees is ok crossing with local....it depends on the local " mix", so it depends of a lot more than a croos with AMM or carnie

and before anyone says...local mongrels....they aren't any as this is london, the gene pool is as about as diverse as it gets, yet three mils away i know of a ferral black bees with negative discoidal shift....and never been able to catch a swarm from them

 

[priono]

Apis mellifera mellifera - the european black bee - i guess the strongest of all and native as well and extinguishing

 

[dilys]

Where I live anyone would be mad to have anything other than AMM or bees with more AMM in them than anything else because other races all turn nasty after a couple of queen changes. I would have thought though that London would have been a different kettle of fish.

Priono, do you have AMMs in London and if so how long have you had them?

 

[sherwood]

Where I live anyone would be mad to have anything other than AMM or bees with more AMM in them than anything else because other races all turn nasty after a couple of queen changes. I would have thought though that London would have been a different kettle of fish.

Priono, do you have AMMs in London and if so how long have you had them?

Yes but looking at your profile we have no idea where you live, make your contribution significant and put a location

 

[priono]

Where I live anyone would be mad to have anything other than AMM or bees with more AMM in them than anything else because other races all turn nasty after a couple of queen changes. I would have thought though that London would have been a different kettle of fish.

Priono, do you have AMMs in London and if so how long have you had them?

I just recently got aware of them. I dont have any but if i get more or new then definitely AMM. I watched plenty films on utube and read plenty stuff, despite their reputation as less easy cultivate able and less honey producing than Italians or BF they are much more resistant vs weather and varroa - i read.

But somehow i doubt that they will stay genetically clean in a bee and human crowded place as London.

What are your experiences?

 

[madasafish]

If my local Association colonies are anything to go by. local bees are the last type I need. Defensive and some very prone to varroa..

Defensive bees make a poor hobby.

 

[For want of a better word]

Yes but looking at your profile we have no idea where you live, make your contribution significant and put a location

Guess : N Ireland or South West Cornwall ?

 

[keith pierce]

And if they have nasty stingy unproductive bees...you keep in with them, and get the same.

Thats not the point i was making. Beekeeping should be an enjoyable experience. If they are as bad as you say they are, then you have no choice, but to bring in a quiet strain of bees. But before you do this, ask around and see if some local beekeper has a strain of bees that are worth keeping. It has taken me over 13 years of selective breeding to get my bees to where they are now.The last buckfast queen that came in to dublin (that i know of) was about 4 years ago and about 7 miles away. These reduced the owner to tears at the end of their second season and had to be moved out to the country side. So the point i am making is, if you local bee is amm, carnie, italian and are worth keeping then stick with them.The other point is that if you local beekeeper has been breeding his selective strain of bees for a number of years, it not very fair to bring in another stain and undo years of hard work.

 

[DanBee]

I just recently got aware of them. I dont have any but if i get more or new then definitely AMM. I watched plenty films on utube and read plenty stuff, despite their reputation as less easy cultivate able and less honey producing than Italians or BF they are much more resistant vs weather and varroa - i read.

Beware all that you read on youtube - remember you're only ever three clicks away from death or pornography

But somehow i doubt that they will stay genetically clean in a bee and human crowded place as London.

Yes, and if your Amm are the disruption in a non-Amm environment, then you may cause problems for the beekeepers around you. Far better to find out what your neighbours are using and work together to improve the stocks, than to parachute anything in, however appealing

 

[PBee]

Thats not the point i was making. Beekeeping should be an enjoyable experience. If they are as bad as you say they are, then you have no choice, but to bring in a quiet strain of bees. But before you do this, ask around and see if some local beekeper has a strain of bees that are worth keeping. It has taken me over 13 years of selective breeding to get my bees to where they are now.The last buckfast queen that came in to dublin (that i know of) was about 4 years ago and about 7 miles away. These reduced the owner to tears at the end of their second season and had to be moved out to the country side. So the point i am making is, if you local bee is amm, carnie, italian and are worth keeping then stick with them.The other point is that if you local beekeeper has been breeding his selective strain of bees for a number of years, it not very fair to bring in another stain and undo years of hard work.

That argument presumes one persons right is greater than another. It's particularly relevant in Ireland due to the current stance of the FIBKA. The reality is it is legal to keep any strain of Am and to import from Europe subject to government approval and paperwork being in order.
Last Buckfast into Dublin was hardly 4yrs ago given its size and the probable number of beekeepers.

 

[priono]

Yes, and if your Amm are the disruption in a non-Amm environment, then you may cause problems for the beekeepers around you. Far better to find out what your neighbours are using and work together to improve the stocks, than to parachute anything in, however appealing

I am not sure what kind of improvement you are talking about? you mean ignoring 10'000years of evolution and selection by introducing weaker but more efficient bees 200 years ago? Perhaps It's time to remember old and sustainable ways of dealing with nature without patronising her to finally get rid of modern diseases like CCD.

Perhaps the steaks will then keep their size while frying as well and not shrink to half.

 

[rolande]

I am not sure what kind of improvement you are talking about? you mean ignoring 10'000years of evolution and selection

In a similar vein I'm not sure which aspects of selection over your '10,000years' you believe to be of such great value to beekeepers in the modern era above and beyond those traits displayed by other races.

 

[Andy Duff]

Simple answer-
keep 3 or 4 hives (or lots more); catch swarms or A\S and keep in nucs, work out which hive\nuc has grumpy bees, kill offending queen and unite accordingly. IT'S CALLED BEEKEEPING. It sorted the insanity out of our Carniolan cross nut jobs and we ended up with fast breeding sweeties.

 

[madasafish]

I am not sure what kind of improvement you are talking about? you mean ignoring 10'000years of evolution and selection by introducing weaker but more efficient bees 200 years ago? Perhaps It's time to remember old and sustainable ways of dealing with nature without patronising her to finally get rid of modern diseases like CCD.

Perhaps the steaks will then keep their size while frying as well and not shrink to half.

On the basis of the above argument we should get rid of all our dairy herds and replace them with wild cattle, horses with wild ones, and chickens with Indian wildfowl etc etc etc. And applied to humans, presumably get rid of modern medicine...

 

[For want of a better word]

Originally Posted by priono View Post
I am not sure what kind of improvement you are talking about? you mean ignoring 10'000years of evolution and selection by introducing weaker but more efficient bees 200 years ago? Perhaps It's time to remember old and sustainable ways of dealing with nature without patronising her to finally get rid of modern diseases like CCD.

Perhaps the steaks will then keep their size while frying as well and not shrink to half.


Must admit the meat from our Oxford Sandy & Blacks tastes far better than the imported Danish shedbred pork from Tesco........ and you get crackling too.....

The eggs from our Buff Orpingtons tast better than the eggs imported from the Shedbred in Poland variety ... and have yellow yolks.

The Honey from my Cornish Black Bees tastes much better than.......

I think I can see a trend here!


Wish we could grow rice !

 

[DanBee]

I am not sure what kind of improvement you are talking about? you mean ignoring 10'000years of evolution and selection by introducing weaker but more efficient bees 200 years ago? Perhaps It's time to remember old and sustainable ways of dealing with nature without patronising her to finally get rid of modern diseases like CCD.

...and I'm out

 

[For want of a better word]

...and I'm out

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Am I missing some thing how about my bees may be angry but if you had your house pull apart each week you would be pretty upset !!!! And then some bu**er nicking your hard earned nectar?

 

[keith pierce]

On the basis of the above argument we should get rid of all our dairy herds and replace them with wild cattle, horses with wild ones, and chickens with Indian wildfowl etc etc etc. And applied to humans, presumably get rid of modern medicine...

And how on earth are you going to milk wild cattle, ride a wild horse and catch a jungle fowl for sunday dinner dinner.

Get a grip